Poets and Quants

Not so fast. See: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/darden-mba

To wit:

Moderate at best. I’m
by bollywoodmba O (Chimp, 5 Points) on 4/1/10 at 11:16pm

I’m currently a 2nd year student at Darden (graduating 2010). Before any of my classmates get all excited, let me preface this by saying there are many pros to the darden experience. Unfortunately, I have found them to be massively overweighed by the cons. Also, I’d like to mention at the beginning that of course most of my classmates and students at other schools will give positive reviews for the lone reason that brand value is SO important at MBA school (probably more important than what you learn), so most students feel they MUST give a positive review in order to increase (albeit ever so insignificantly) the brand value of their school on the internet, etc.

Below, I’ll give a quick, and very honest*, overview of the major pros and cons:

PROS:
1) Professors: professors are good, they’re smart, funny, and interactive. They may not be world reknown, but I’m here to learn, not get autographs.

2) UVA: the campus is beautiful, the weather is great, the student body is picturesque and ever so quaint.

CONS:

1) Job Placement: this is the killer. although I feel our curriculum is the same as most top tier schools and our professors are as good if not better, year after year we get housed when it comes to job placement. Just to throw out a few names, Duke, UNC, Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, and even Georgetown often dominate top financial and consulting recruiting stats. Don’t get too excited by the stats you see on school websites, they’re all artificially manipulated in one way or another. Go to the schools, and randomly ask where students are going to work (and when they got their job), you will find many Darden students who simply answer with a tear. Why? maybe because of #2…

2) Students: DON’T GET ME WRONG I LOVE MY CLASSMATES, they are funny, for the most part kind, and very supportive. The problem I see is Darden gets a lot of students who were simply average in their field or great in average fields. The worst problem is the abundance of overseas students who can barely spell the word “derivative”, let alone calculate the present value of one. I’m not saying I’m the next Donald Trump, but at least I can hold my own when it comes to basic algebra. Professors have to stop class numerous times to explain simple mathematical concepts, and let’s just say you will be beating your head against the wall if one or two members of your learning team have a hard time with accounting (the EASIEST subject in the history of business).

3) ADMINISTRATION: no darden student will disagree with me here. the administration is in shambles. Admissions is a nightmare…have you tried to use their new IT system? Career services if full of a bunch of people who really couldn’t make it in the business world, hence they are working for around 40 G’s a year, and are trying to help students find jobs paying over 100. It just doesn’t make sense.

4) The program: In general, the darden program is more busy work (reading far too many case studies for the time given, where a case study is never given it’s due time in analysis and debate) and GAMES than any real learning. After two years, I don’t really feel like I have a specialty in any useful subject, a I think most analytical ability is just natural, not forced upon you by reading 4 case studies per day for 2 years. The A-E sections, mascots, sports competitions, and other events are all good fun, but sometimes I feel like I’m in MBA kindergarten. If you put 90% of the students in a situation where they’d have to use real knowledge and skills to help build a country’s infrastructure and economy, they’d fail miserably. They only know how to “gamble” on the economy a bit better, and sound smart in meetings.

There you have it. That’s the real story. Take it for what it is. You’ll never read a more honest assessment of a student’s own school.

gpa: 3.2
gmat: 660

As a Darden Alum, I hold a completely opposite viewpoint of Arthur who is currently a student. I firmly believe that an MBA experience is truly about the holistic experience and preparing students for a wide range of situations that may require a different way of approaching a problem. Who can build a country’s infrastructure? Who can build an economy? You said 90% probably won’t be able to and you’re correct. That same number applies everywhere else as well.

There are members from the class of 2009 who started Husk Power Systems that are providing energy and resources to villages in India. They’re building the infrastructure. They’re building the economies. They’re providing energy to some of the most remote villages in India and the technology can be used in many other countries as well. They’ve won award after award and they deserve it. What Husk Power Systems provides is a life altering service to their customers.

I’m sorry you didn’t have a positive experience, but it sounds like you didn’t need an MBA. I’m more concerned that you are not really prepared to begin your career. You seemed to have missed out on all of the wonderful things you could have learned from your classmates. Instead, you’ve chosen to look down on them because they are not as adept at Math. Have you offered to help? Just lending a hand to help someone get over the hump or understand a concept is the essence of the Learning Team model. And it’s more provides more enrichment to life than you could ever imagine.

I hope that your last semester is much more positive than your current experience indicates. Some people don’t truly understand what they missed until they are gone.

As far as the article is concerned, I think one of the most overlooked aspects of the rankings was captured in Robert Carraway’s comment about student leadership. The makeup of a class plays a huge role in the overall experience. Students are all responsible for the learning experience of all others. That, as much as any other factor, can make or break the rankings. Overall, great article.

Rishona, Peter and John. I’m not a Darden alum. The description of life at Darden is from a post on Wallsteetoasis.. See the link in my post.

As a current second year student who is firmly in the “Mature-Ticket Puncher” category I’ll say this. I cared a lot about rankings when I applied to B-schools. I dont think anyone really cares anymore once you’re here. The same Goldmans, Bains and McKinseys come to Darden as they do to HBS and they probably recruit a higher % of the class here then they do at the bigger schools. If thats what you’re here for. No school is perfect, HBS is not, I am sure there are some dissatisfied customers there who in the end will leave with an HBS degree and they will be happy. I will be happy with my Darden brand, with the connections I made and the new things I learned. So far in my more mature job search having the Darden brand has only helped when applying for jobs with the “top MBA” tag. Thus, while I can complain around the sides, on the whole I am satisfied with my money’s worth.

Arthur-

I appreciate your candor, but to be quite honest with you, I’m having doubts that you are a real student. I find it hard to believe that you were admitted into Darden with a 660 GMAT, 3.2 GPA, and at the age of 21. What did you do before b-school?

To all,

I am a complete, legit Darden Alum from the early ’90′s. Whew, way back then. Even in those old days the McKinseys, Goldman Sachs, top advertising agencies, P&Gs etc. recruited at Darden. Of course, Darden was ranked in the Top Ten of the US News and World Report lists long before so many like North Carolina, Yale et al played catch up. Georgetown, really? Which of course is the larger question, how and why did Darden slip at all?

I am sure that most of you who are students, all of you who are real grads and a few of you who are candidates have heard this truth: The MBA experience as it relates to placement only holds currency during the first FEW years after graduation. Following that, and for most of people’s careers, recruiters and hiring managers will look at concrete professional, business accomplishments. Someone above said that accounting is the easiest course offered in business school. That person clearly has not been in the working world very long. Please don’t repeat that on a interview, it’s not true, especially to those who have NOT taken accounting and those will be most of the people for whom you interview and work.

The MBA experience as it relates to your career is a different story. As a Darden grad, you will know so much more than many of your other B School peers, work colleagues and bosses. Don’t be so shortsighted as to not realize that. Also as time goes on, your degree from Darden will command respect and dollars as do the degrees earned from other major B-Schools.

But hold on to your hats, especially you newbies , the MBA is often mentioned as a “preferred” credential, not a requirement as jobs move further upwards. I recently watched a 60 minutes episode about Tyra Banks the former model and media mogul pursuing an executive MBA at HBS. She has already built a pretty major media company of HER OWN BEFORE pursuing an MBA, only now that she has already has millions sans MBA she wants a better understanding of what those Wall Street folks are talking about as she looks to grow further for herself.

So try to take a longer view. And average? There is nothing average about a Darden grad or a grad from any major, intensive MBA prgram. BTW, you should read up on the satisfaction surveys from grads of HBS. I’m not knocking HBS, it’s a great program in my view and I’m a Darden grad. But read what the people who went there say. It does not or will not rank with the student satisifaction achieved by Darden. It’s tough, but sometimes it really does help to start realisticaly looking further down the road.