Poets and Quants

The Top 100 U.S. MBA Programs of 2011

by John A. Byrne

All of this goes to show another important consideration when evaluating rankings. The slightest change in the methodology of any ranking can often have a significant impact on the final results. In the interests of transparency, Poets&Quants publishes the actual index scores upon which our composite ranking is based (only BusinessWeek currently provides users with this underlying data) and is also making clear that we have made a change to methodology and explaining in detail the result of that change.

Publishing the underlying index score allows you to decide how meaningful one rank vs. another is. The difference between Stanford and Chicago is now so small in terms of reputation and prestige that it’s safe to say there is no significance to that difference.

U.S. NEWS LIST GETS SLIGHTLY MORE WEIGHT IN P&Q’S NEW COMPOSITE RANKING

Why would we even tweak the methodology? Of all the rankings, U.S. News gathers and weighs the most comprehensive set of qualitative data on the quality of an MBA experience. Previously, we valued U.S. News slightly below BusinessWeek and Forbes because its surveys of both B-school deans and corporate recruiters is severely flawed. But it can also be argued that BusinessWeek’s methodology tends to penalize schools with smaller graduating classes. That occurs because fewer corporate recruiters go to schools which have fewer MBAs to recruit and those that do go are often disappointed because the available pool of candidates is so much smaller. That’s a major reason why Stanford is ranked fifth on the BusinessWeek list.

Another important insight when looking at this ranking or any other: the further down you go on the list, the thinner the data gets. And the thinner the data, the less certainty one can attach to the result. Among the top 25 schools, for example, every single school is rated by each of the five most influential rankings. In the next group of 25, the schools ranked 26th through 50, only 11 have been rated by all five sources.

This trend continues. None of the schools ranked between 51 and 100 are rated by all five sources. In fact, the schools with ranks between 77 and 100 are all there on the basis of a single source: most likely U.S. News & World Report. The value of the Poets&Quants system in this case is mostly comparative. Users can clearly see how a school on just one list stacks up with others.

LEADING SCHOOLS HAVE DONE WELL SURVIVING THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN

Whatever any school’s individual rank, by and large, these top MBA-granting institutions have fared well through the economic downturn and the continued global uncertainty. Though applications have been declining at many leading schools, the starting pay packages received by this year’s graduating classes was generally up, along with job offers at graduation and three months later. At Dartmouth’s Tuck School, Harvard and Columbia, 97% of the students had job offers within three months of graduation. And at most schools the incoming crop of this year’s newest students was among the best ever as judged by their GMAT scores and work experience. At Harvard, the median starting salary of a Class of 2011 graduate hit $120,000, up from $110,000 a year earlier. And one Stanford MBA landed a hedge fund job in the Northeast that paid the freshly minted graduate a guaranteed bonus of half a million dollars.

Harvard’s repeat honor comes at an opportune time. HBS Dean Nitin Nohira is in the midst of a highly ambitious effort to update the Harvard MBA experiece. The curriculum changes are lessening the school’s dependence on its previously sacrosanct case method of teaching that has been the dominant pedagogy at HBS since the mid-1920s. The most significant of these alterations has been a new first year course called FIELD (Field Immersion Experiences for Leadership Development). Based on small-group learning experiences that focus on leadership, global business and entrepreneurship, it puts the focus on learning by doing.

Most daunting for the institution and the faculty is that Harvard has had to line up some 150 organizations willing to give meaningful project work during the January term to 900-plus MBA students in countries as varied as Vietnam, India and China for an eight-day global immersion experience. The whole idea has some rival deans wondering about the outcome.

HARVARD’S CURRICULUM CHANGES APPLAUDED BY OTHER DEANS

“What’s unique is that it’s required,” says Robert Bruner, dean of the University of Virginia’s Darden School. “Every student will have to do it.  It’s a big deal. I admire and applaud Harvard. The question is, will this exercise speak to the students? We’ll find out. I’m rooting for them, and I admire their audacity.”

So far, there has been some student grumbling over their forthcoming project assignments. But overall, the new curriculum changes are being received positively, say students. If places were switched and deFonseka were handing out HBS grades, which are done by number instead of letters, he would give Dean Nohira a low 1, equal to an A-.

“I’m not just saying that because I’m worried about how this quote will be used,” says deFonseka. “He has been a very visible Dean, and has been open in communicating his plans with students.  He and his team have been pretty responsive when students have had problems with the new curriculum–for example their FIELD location assignments. There is work left to improve the new curriculum, as one would expect, but the direction that HBS is going is definitely the right one.”

(See next page for the start of the ranking)

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  • Jimmy

    Well take FT ranking and you’ll see (I don’t even speak of non US but just take the US MBA in the FT ranking). As far as I am concerned I would prefer to enter Tuck, Yale, Berkeley or Duke rather than Kellogg (I don’t even mention Booth, MIT or Columbia) And I think I am not the only one !

  • Karim

    Thank you very much John for your feedback. I also, noticed that Owen is a graduate school unlike Olin, so the efforts on Vandy MBA is much higher. It looks like Owen is very similar to Fuqua of Duke both established in 1969 and very strong in healthcare. Owen interestingly placed 4 last year to Goldman which I consider very strong signal. However, what make me confused is the high rank of the parent university of wash u in all the major ranking. and the long history of the school being established in 1917 is a plus and means higher recognised. I like the attitude at Owen to be on the top, they celebrated when they ranked 25 on the US News.  any how, thank you very much for your feedback and I believe I am heading there. cheers :)

  • Karim

    Thank you very much for your thought. in a global scale, which one you consider more recognized?

  • Guest

    Jimmy, M7 is there for a reason. FT, as a ranking, is not reliable, and that’s why John doesn’t give FT as much weight as some other rankings. 

    I respect your opinion on taking Yale, Haas, Fuqua over Kellogg. It’s your life. But the MAJORITY of prospective MBAs will not take those schools over Kellogg. Sure you are not the only one, but there will always be a minority that could take Yale, Haas, Duke over these M7 schools (Booth, MIT, Columbia). 

    At the end of the day, it’s still H/S/W and the other 4 (Kellogg, Booth, Columbia, Sloan) M7 schools, then comes Tuck and Haas (A8 or whatever you call it)… Yale and Duke come in after Haas and Tuck… It’s the reality. 

  • Comeon

    Kellogg, Booth are trending downward. Yale and Haas are trending upward. MIT, Columbia and the rest are more or less static.
    As long as it’s in Top 10, it does not matter at all/ in fact is funny to distinguish almost non-existent difference among the top 10. Every one of the schools got their own thing going and depending on applicants’ preference (such as East Coast based schools vs. West Coast based schools), the options are very limited to begin with (Harvard, Yale, Wharton, Columbia, Dartmouth, Stern ?)

  • WHAT

    Oh… what are you talking about? K + B are not trending downward. They are both there at top 5. In fact, there is no room for them to move up b/c they only have HBS, Stanford, and Wharton above them. 

    Top 10 doesn’t matter? Then why not just apply to Stern or Yale vs. Kellogg, MIT, Booth, Columbia, Wharton, HBS, Stanford, Tuck, and Haas, schools that are definitely harder to get in than Stern or Yale. By the way, let’s not bring up acceptance rate BS for Yale and Stern. The quality of applicants that apply to Yale and Stern isn’t quite the same as top 8 schools. Just see how most candidates who get into top 8 schools also get into Yale, Duke, Ross, and Stern caliber schools. Hello?! There is a difference between top 10 (Yale/Ross/Stern/and others) vs. top 7 or 8 or 5….

    In fact, there are certain events in which top recruiters only invite top 7 schools to their event. Hello?! There is a difference my friend…. Again, if they are the same, why not go through the hassle and compete for a spot in top 7 or 8 schools when you can more easily get into SOM, Ross, Duke, Darden, Stern, Johnson and etc… Once again, there is a difference…

    However, I’ll leave it at that – all these top 10-15 schools are great and will open up many opportunities for anyone. The degree of opportunities may vary a bit though.

  • Jimmy

    Was my last message not clear about that ?? :) Vanderbilt !!! :) (I’d love to live in Nashville…)

  • Karim

    Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

  • Hello

    There is no room for K or B and even W to move up but plenty of room to move down.

    I myself have applied to HBS, Wharton and Yale, skipping Tuck due to its remoteness. I would never apply to K or B due to its lack of prestige and mid-westernness.

    But I do know lots of people who applied to Booth and Stern and many did choose Stern over Booth.

    I am not even sure which events you are referring to when you say “top recruiters only invite top 7 schools”. Top recruiters such as McKinsey or Bain recruit from top 10 and INSEAD and LBS etc. and even from Duke.

    You sound like an army brat who has no sense of what the real world is like. Don’t tell me you go to either K or B.

  • Dan

    These individual anecdotes are dangerous and this is certainly an aberration. If you would like to know more about Goizueta’s career placement, look no further than its job report. One angst ridden undergraduate student (at least a single poor experience with an MBA) should not become an indictment of the program. It is irresponsible. 

    Goizueta is top 10 in job placement, it owns the SE and is represented very well in the NE. Many of the companies students consider prestigious recruit on campus for banking, consulting and marketing. They didn’t move up to 19 in the rankings because the career placement record is trending downward. 

    That being said, choose Emory because you like it. All programs offer different experiences and have different strengths/weaknesses. The goofball who applies to Stern/Columbia/Tuck (one of these things is no like the others) is brand shopping, not program shopping. 

    If Marks advice is to not apply to Emory over Owen/Olin, that is nonsensical; if it is over Ross/Fuqua, that may be applicable. Context is important for such broad advice. 

  • Jimmy

    You’ll really have an awesome time there. I am actually wait listed for Cornell but if I am not taken I will consider seriously to apply for Vanderbilt next year.

  • Navy

    Hello: Bain & Co. only invited M7 + Tuck 1st yr MBAs to this event (eligibility per Bain & Co.): Bain & Company’s 2012 Diversity Pre-MBA Program, which will be held on June 28th-29th in Bain’s New York office. 

    I did say that all 15 schools will open up opportunities above, right? I just said that the degree of opportunities may vary a bit…

    By that, this is exactly what I mean: 
    http://poetsandquants.com/2011/11/16/mckinsey-doubles-mba-hires-at-duke-haas/2/ 

    Check out from consulting, financial, tech, corporate hires from these top schools. These firms all recruit at top business schools but opportunities vary depending on which school you attended. For example, consulting for M7 schools will be MBB heavy vs. Ross and Duke is non-MBB heavy. On each category, M7 schools generally do better than non-M7 schools. This probably means that one’s chance of landing at better and more prestigious firms increase with M7 vs. others.

    Conclusion: All great schools and most firms will come to top 15-20 schools to hire, but opportunities will vary depending on which school one attends. 

  • Karim

    Why next year? the last deadline is ahead on may 15!

  • Life

    That is an awesome point. Also keep in mind that for example. UW sent more people to Amazon and Microsoft than HBS/Stanford/Wharton combined because of location. I know UW people who have the same job / title / pay and prob career prospect 9at least in Amzaon) as the Stanford HBS guy. Just a thought.

  • Life

    That is an awesome point. Also keep in mind that for example. UW sent more people to Amazon and Microsoft than HBS/Stanford/Wharton combined because of location. I know UW people who have the same job / title / pay and prob career prospect 9at least in Amzaon) as the Stanford HBS guy. Just a thought.

  • HSY

    I would look at this for top bschool consulting placements rather:
    http://www.caseinterviewhq.com/2012/01/28/consulting-mba/ 

    The Pre-MBA program you cited was only open to those 8 schools for URM’s, meaning Blacks/Hispanics/Natives. And who knows what the motives were. Perhaps, internally Bain had an issue of not hiring enough URM’s.

    This URM concept does not exist internationally so it automatically eliminates non-US programs such as INSEAD or LBS.

    Plus, the link you supplied actually shows Duke’s or Ross’ or Haas’ outperformance (doing better than more prestigious schools like Tuck or Kellogg either across the board or in majority of sectors), which in fact does not help reinforce your argument.

    Another faulty reasoning that you show is that you are assuming schools to supply all the data to Bloomberg. Some schools such as Harvard, Stanford, Yale and Stern, the ones you pointed out specifically, do not report how many get employed by who, hence complete omissions of the four. among the top 10.

    Also, one last thing. I agree with the posters above. I have personally an ambitious goal of running a government agency in the later stages of my career, after my early career stage in the private sector, such as Management Consulting and Private Equity. I would not expect any schools better than Harvard, Stanford or Yale, hence applying to only these three.

  • HSY

    I would look at this for top bschool consulting placements rather:
    http://www.caseinterviewhq.com/2012/01/28/consulting-mba/ 

    The Pre-MBA program you cited was only open to those 8 schools for URM’s, meaning Blacks/Hispanics/Natives. And who knows what the motives were. Perhaps, internally Bain had an issue of not hiring enough URM’s.

    This URM concept does not exist internationally so it automatically eliminates non-US programs such as INSEAD or LBS.

    Plus, the link you supplied actually shows Duke’s or Ross’ or Haas’ outperformance (doing better than more prestigious schools like Tuck or Kellogg either across the board or in majority of sectors), which in fact does not help reinforce your argument.

    Another faulty reasoning that you show is that you are assuming schools to supply all the data to Bloomberg. Some schools such as Harvard, Stanford, Yale and Stern, the ones you pointed out specifically, do not report how many get employed by who, hence complete omissions of the four. among the top 10.

    Also, one last thing. I agree with the posters above. I have personally an ambitious goal of running a government agency in the later stages of my career, after my early career stage in the private sector, such as Management Consulting and Private Equity. I would not expect any schools better than Harvard, Stanford or Yale, hence applying to only these three.

  • Marine

    Your consulting link shows that M7 schools perform much better than top 20 schools in placing MBAs to MBB. Nuff said.

    Not sure which data you are looking at, as tech, corporate, finance, and consulting numbers look more impressive for M7 vs. top 20 or 15.

    Lastly, take your sorry complaints to various ranking sources (QS Top MBA, FT, Economist, Forbes, US News, BusinessWeek, http://business-schools.findthebest.com, http://www.mbaapply.com/advice.htm#topmba, P&Q compiled ranking, MBA DEANS of M7, and the general public. People out there already know that it’s: Mit/Cbs/Hbs/Kellogg/Booth/Wharton/Stanford (M7 no particular order)

    M7 is there for a reason, and that is why the deans of these seven peer school meet annually. Sorry they don’t invite other very good top 15-20 schools. Hey, I am not the one who created M7 or A8 so don’t hate. Thanks. End of story…

  • Air Force

    Good luck applying to your 3 schools. HBS/Stanford is a tough school for anyone to get in but Yale should be doable. 

  • SpecialForces

    Army/Navy/Marine, whatever pathetic GI Joe group you belong to, you sound like a black (almost said the N word) guy, who needs some “M7″ (which the majority of people do not even know about) pedestal to upgrade your social status.
    Dartmouth, being the oldest graduate bschool, does not even participate this, what you call, an M7 get together. I am not even sure if this exists today. I would think it’s the new BMW.Yale’s dean came from Chicago. So I assume he’s suddenly not invited to those meetings?! I am thinking you must go to Kellogg or Booth, seeing how clingy you get to that M7 label because K or B do not really belong to anything else otherwise.

  • Comeon

    First off, HSY did not talk about top 15-20 schools. He is talking about schools like Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Stern etc. not supplying the data, hence the omissions in the link you provided. Nuff said.
    And, the very data you supplied do not really support your claim as he said, because 1) in consulting, Tuck seems below Duke or others, 2) in finance, Tuck seems below Duke, Michigan or Darden, 3) in technology, Michigan, Haas, Darden seem above Duke, Kellogg, Tuck, Columbia and MIT, 4) in marketing, Kellogg and Michigan seem above Wharton, Chicago, Columbia, Tuck, Duke, Haas and Darden.So this shows the following:- That the rankings in your own world (M7 vs. other  3 in the top 10) are not so clear cut or black and white.- That each school has its own strengths and really among the top 10, there really isn’t any difference.

    Lastly, I would add that in true general public’s opinion, including international audience, the only schools that matter are really Harvard, Stanford, MIT and Yale. The others truly people do not know much. Although if you want to include other ivy league schools, we can include Columbia, Dartmouth and University of Pennsylvania. I am not going to include Princeton, Brown or Cornell because the former two have no bschool and Cornell is truly a school that is on decline.

    Nuff said. Thanks. End of story..

  • HSY

    I have visited all three campuses. All three seem extremely hard but in fact, Yale and Stanford with their tiny class sizes and impressive class statistics, I am afraid my chances for all these three mega schools that produce leaders of tomorrow are slim.

    Yale may seem easier but in fact, from my research, a lot of rockstar candidates who get admitted to Kellogg or other top 10 schools have failed to gain their acceptance. Its yield may be lower than Harvard or Stanford at this point but I think that’s changing very quickly with their new curriculum, etc. At the end of the day, it’s Yale so..But really, these are the only three schools where you can get some sort of respect when you are the face of any government so…yeah. Thanks for wishing me luck!

  • Guest2

    You said it right boy.. You acknowledge it as well by saying I need X or Y to upgrade my social status. Yes, I need Wharton, Kellogg, Booth, MIT, or CBS (M7) pedestal to excel in my desired field, PE/VC. My desired field don’t recruit much from schools outside of M7 + Tuck/Haas. Yes, you are also right that Yale’s new dean no longer participates in the formal annual M7 meetings. 

    Most people who are in the elite MBA circle know the term “M7″. It is even in Wikipedia bro. You probably don’t know cuz your target school is Yale… 
    http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools&tid=73431  AND http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools&tid=73431. The term M7 is also mentioned in Wikipedia…

  • GI Joe

    Hey, let’s quit this thing. They are all great schools. What matters most is the person behind the degree. I wish you the best in your career and/or application. Let’s stop. I’m tired of responding. They are all very good schools period. 

  • Gmatclubber

    Sorry. To go to PE/VC,there is a post on gmatclub about it. HBS is a clear winner but otherwise, Wharton, Tuck, Stanford, NYU Stern, Chicago Booth, even Duke all will place you in PE/VC. 

    MIT, Kelloggin fact will not place you well in PE/VC.Go to gmatclub.comand search for the post. It’s been debated.

  • SpecialForces

    Yale is not one of my target schools. That’s one of HSY’s target schools. I am not looking to apply to bschoolother than Harvard. That is it. But your post is ridiculous so I had to respond. I have lots of friends who have gone throughHBS 2+2 and Yale Silver Scholarthough.They will laugh at you when they see your post.

  • Hello

    From GI Joe to PE/VC?

    Wow. I haven’t seen anyonedoing that sort of jump. Good luck.

    You need IB or MC experience prior. Not GI Joe. 

    I guess the best school to go to IB though is finance schoolslike Wharton, Stern, Booth and CBS. Or you can go to Tuck, HBS, Stanford, INSEAD and such to go to MC or IB.

    Wow. You need much more than just luck to break into PE/VC from your previous work experience as an army brat.

  • Zxy

    Here is PE/VC Placement for Class of 2011 (from school employment stats):

    1. Stanford 21% 
    2. HBS 15%
    3. Wharton 7.7%
    4. LBS 7%
    5. Columbia 5.7%
    6. Kellogg/Tuck/Booth (tie) 5%
    9. NYU 3%
    10. Yale 2%
    11. MIT <2%
    12. Duke BB IB –> PE –> MBA (IP) = Doesn’t seem too bad to land a PE/VC job.

  • HBSboy

    Incorrect.
    I am not sure what point you are trying to raise here but not all students at said top schools are looking to break into PE/VC after bschool. Your post seems to make a point that M7 schools are better at sending West Point grads to PE/VC roles but first of all, you need strong analytical skills to break into any financial sectors, especially PE/VC firms. With the current biased opinion you possess, anyone buying your product will be doomed even if somehow by connection, you luck out at getting a job! I wouldn’t hire you based on your analytics.

    1) HBS is indeed #1 feeder to PE/VC. It has been that way for a long long period of time. Based on top 20 or so PE/VC firms’ senior management’s educational background, one can easily deduce that HBS grads clearly outnumber any other top bschool grads. Check it out yourself. After that, you will see some Stanford, some Wharton, some Tuck, some INSEAD, some NYU, some Duke, some Yale, some MIT, some without any MBA degrees!, etc.

    2) Your quoted stats are a bit off: Wharton sent 7.65% (your round-up), HBS sent 14% (1% lower than your number because VC is already accounted for, due to their similarities to PE/LBO), INSEAD 4.8% (20% financial services then 24% PE/VC), Booth 4% or 5% depending on which category you look at (Hires by function or Hires by industry??), Haas sent 3.4% (http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/epublications/EmploymentReport10/pageflip.html)

    From here, we can conclude that first of all, there are other, unfortunately for you, bschools in the top 10 or internationally-based, that do better than your darling M7 schools (NYU, Yale, Haas doing better than MIT, for example). Also, 1% or 2% or however small the number is, really is not a big deal.

    3) You say you are aiming at PE/VC. PE/VC firms straight out of bschools rarely visit bschools. Majority of the hires are through the applicants’ grunt work/networking. I’d say, if you are from army, as your post above indicates, it is extremely difficult for you to get a PE/VC job straight from bschool because you just don’t have the right background (i.e. prior IB or MC or PE/VC experience and it’s not like you went to the right undergrad). What’s worse, you don’t seem to have the right analytical skills!

    4) If you are looking to transition to IB from bschool, that is more likely. However, if really IB is your goal, then I’d say all finance-focused schools such as NYU Stern, Wharton, Booth, Columbia, Yale will do the job as well as HBS or Stanford. So what you posted about M7 is just not true. I will argue Stern will do much better in placing you in IB in the right location than Kellogg, Tuck, MIT and even Booth.

    5) If you are truly PE/VC minded, have a look at the following URL instead of trolling on poetsandquants, picking fights with strangers and trying to prove your point about M7 because nobody gives much weight to M7. Top 10 or ivy league schools will matter much more globally and publicly. (obviously unless you go to schools like Kellogg, which is not an ivy but a solid top 10 school)
    http://privateequityblogger.com/2010/08/best-private-equity-business-schools.html

    Good luck on your job search/dream! It sure won’t be easy. Try to beef up your quant skills/avoid assumption bias/ or just learn how to BS better because your BS stinks! 

  • HBSboy

    Oh and just to add:

    What I meant to say was that top 10 and international schools like INSEAD or LBS will do just fine for anything really. And also, that the % you or I posted above don’t tell us anything because we do not know how many were really gunning for PE/VC roles and how many already had prior experience in PE/VC roles (the latter also matters because people with experience in PE/VC would have already strong network/work experience). 

    So stop discouraging other people here by being an ass because M7 nobody really cares. I went to HBS by the way and I never ever look down on people who go to schools in Chicago or NYC because that’s just not me although some of my HBS friends would not even think of them as schools when we get together for drinks. For some people, it’s HBS and the rest. For others, it’s top 10.

    And since you may not know, in the high echelon of power in America, Harvard, Yale and Princeton undergrads going to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT and other ivy-league institutions (maybe except Cornell) or even Berkeley are more of a norm than veering off to Northwestern, Chicago, Duke etc. It’s the whole prestige thing, which I don’t think you understand and you don’t have to.

  • Army

    HBSkid, yeah HBS sends more to PE/VC by # but I was trying to make a point that Stanford sends more to PE/VC on a % basis. Since # of class vary from x to y schools, isn’t % as total the right way to go? duh and you dare to question my analytical skills? 

    On your point 3, I question your reading comprehension… I clearly mentioned that I have BB IB + PE background and yet you mentioned that I don’t have the right experience? How do you deal with all those cases at HBS? 

    You mentioned my analytical/quant skills but you barely know me. Have you scored 51 on the Quant section of GMAT two times in a row? Have you modeled LBOs over 70 times? Probably not. In fact, I already secured my job at a PE shop which interned over the summer. 

    Lastly, you say that you are not the type to “look down” on people who go to schools in Chicago or NYC or whatever, but you were doing just that to me on this post. What a hypocrite…  

  • Jimmy

    I doubt that scholarships are still available. Plus it is late for visa consideration. Plus I don’t have anything ready for the application… No really it its too late for this year ! (are you sure about this last deadline ? I was certain the last one was mid March).

  • HBSboy

    Your analytical skills are very questionable because your BS to prove to some other people the non-existent value of so called M7 schools over other top 10 schools stinks and your analytical skills are full of assumption errors. % or absolute numbers, whichever way you try to measure any school’s PE/VC placements is based on an assumption that all students are gunning for PE/VC jobs. If not, then there is no point of measuring the output only because we do not know the input. Logically, if there is less/more input, there will be less/more output. Without the knowledge of input, your argument becomes baseless. You are the one who deserves “DUH”.

    You “clearly” did not mention that you had BB IB+PE background after your West Point education. In fact, it comes across as your wish. I have never personally come across any West Point grads, working at BB IB/PE firms straight from their undergrads. You mean, West Point -> Army/Navy/Air Force/Whatever -> Kellogg -> IB/PE, which is possible but not common.

    Don’t worry about my cases at HBS because I already have my MBA from HBS with distinction.

    If a guy like you, based on your demonstrated analytical skills here, scores 51 on GMAT twice in a row or models LBO’s over 70 times, with the latter bearing no proof of your analytical skills by the way other than the fact that you were a monkey, then I should urge bschools to stop admitting kids like you based on GMAT quant score because there is a huge loophole in the GMAT quant exam.

    I look down on kids like you who look down on others, based on your superficialness, created somehow by attending some school in Chicago, which, relatively speaking, is not even that great either, depending on what people value more (perhaps some people value ivy league education, perhaps some people value NYC, perhaps some people have Harvard or bust mentality etc.).

  • Life

    I think HBSboy makes the best point I have seen here in a while. HBS or Stanford do not make you. As an example, I have a friend with a HYP undergraduate degree, had decent grades but not stellar and did not get an IB or MC job post-undergrad, so did marketing instead. He was lazy at academia I guess but did great at his job and GMAT and so manage to get to Stanford with the goal of PE/VC. He hit a wall when he realized that his Stanford degree did not automatically mean he will get whatever job he wanted. He got an IB job but has been trying to make the move to the buy side, but no luck yet. I think he still gets frudtrated to see people who went to other bschool get the job he wanted, because in the end experience will trump the degree for the most part. Also another thing is that yeah maybe HBS and Stanford sent more kids to PE but don;t forget the you will be competing with the brothers from Carlyle and Blackstone for the post-mba job, so if you did not work at Apollo before, your profile is not that competitive.

  • Jimmy

    HBSboy – I’m reminded of this quote, “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” Not sure the past beef btw Zxy and you, but your posts are condescending and immature. Is that what you were going for?

  • Karim

    Yes, it is on May 15th. interestingly, it is also for international students! but yes, agree on the funding issue.

  • Agree

    Wow I agree. It’s always the Chicago school students, either Booth or Kellogg students who always try to defend their schools and feel entitled/empowered by trashing other schools like Wharton, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Berkeley, NYU etc.

  • Paramia

    Why didn’t you complete to the ten??!! where is the tenth school!! what the secret behind nine?! why not eight or 10?!!!

  • SP

    Hello, 
    Congratulations on all your great offers.  I can not offer you my best advice, as I am aiming the application process in the fall, but as an MBA hopeful who is freaked out by debt- would you mind sharing your GMAT/GPA/Stats?  I don’t think you can make a bad decision in your situation, but I personally am drawn to Owen’s program based on reputation, location, and job placement.  

  • MBAwatcher

    agree Owen is rising, and the mother uni is 17th national university in US NEWS, however, Penn State offer is very attractive (full tuition + 18 k). Owen placed 4 into Goldman Sachs last year,  few top programs did so, and this year I think they sent 5 for an internship also. Owen is graduate school (no undergraduate) with an endowment over $250m, means lots of resources and expecting good things. Boston Uni is near to HBS and MIT, I prefer to stay away of it.  WUSTL Olin is very prestigious as undergraduate school, not as an MBA although it has been ranked well (22 on US News) but the undergraduate program is stealing lights..

  • Mario

    another performance for a Harvard MBA grad, see JP Morgan results here:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070304577396511420792008.html 

  • Paramia

    The most comprehensive report about salaries and hiring of MBAs worldwide:
    http://www.mbahome.com/Special/qsapple2/images/TopMBA.com_Jobs_&_Salary_Report_2011-12.pdf 

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