Poets and Quants

Top 50 Non-U.S. MBA Programs of 2011

by John A. Byrne

INSEAD claims first place in 2011 Poets&Quants' ranking of best MBA programs outside the U.S.

INSEAD nudged aside London Business School to claim first place in Poets&Quants’ 2011 ranking of the world’s best MBA programs outside the U.S. INSEAD, the self-proclaimed “business school for the world,” switched places with London, moving up from a ranking of second last year.

INSEAD’s new standing is an early and welcome victory for Dipak Jain, the former dean of the Kellogg School of Management who took over the reins at INSEAD last March. Jain is no stranger to rankings success, having led Kellogg back to a number one ranking in the influential BusinessWeek survey during this eight-year stint as the school’s leader from 2001 to 2009.

For years, INSEAD–with its campuses in Fontainebleau, France, Singapore and Abu Dhabi–had long been considered the best business school in Europe. But rankings by The Financial Times and The Economist have helped to erode the school’s reputation for providing the best MBA experience outside of Harvard, Stanford and a handful of other U.S. programs.

Since 2004, when the Financial Times had INSEAD and London in a dead tie for fourth place in its influential global ranking, the Financial Times has ranked London ahead of INSEAD for seven consecutive years. Prior to the 2004 tie, INSEAD had been above London for three straight years. The Financial Times currently has London Business School’s MBA program in a dead tie for the best in the world with the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School. A year earlier, London was the British newspaper’s undisputed number one winner.

THREE OF THE TOP SIX NON-U.S. MBA PROGRAMS ARE NOW IN SPAIN

Spain, meantime, solidified itself as a country that has become something of a European hub for managment education. Three of the top six schools on the list are in Spain, including IE Business School in Madrid which rose two spots to finish in third place. Not far behind are IESE Business School and ESADE, respectively ranked fifth and sixth for having the best full-time MBA programs outside the U.S.

Four of the top programs are in the United Kingdom, while France can rightly claim a pair of the best MBA programs while Switzerland has one. Other schools whose MBA programs ranked in the top ten of the list are IMD in Lausanne, Switzerland, which placed fourth, No. 7 University of Cambridge’s Judge School, No. 8. École des Hautes Études Commerciales de Paris, more popularly known as HEC Paris, No. 9 Oxford University’s Said School, and No. 10. Cranfield University.

Though there were few dramatic year-over-year changes in the top 30, although several new schools emerged on full list of the 50 best MBA programs outside the U.S. Among the schools making their debut on the list were the National University of Singapore with a rank of 16th, while the Indian Institute of Management in Ahmedabad claimed a ranking of 27th.

This new P&Q list is a composite of four major MBA rankings published by Bloomberg BusinessWeek, The Economist, The Financial Times, and Forbes. The ranking takes into account a massive wealth of quantitative and qualitative data captured in these major lists, from surveys of corporate recruiters, MBA graduates, deans and faculty publication records to median GPA and GMAT scores of entering students as well as the latest salary and employment statistics of alumni.

By blending these rankings using a system that takes into account each of their strengths as well as their flaws, we’ve come up with what is arguably the most authoritative ranking of MBA programs ever published. The list, which includes the recently released 2011 rankings by Forbes, The Financial Times, and The Economist, tends to eliminate anomalies and other statistical distortions that often occur in one ranking or another. In any case, the ranking measures the overall quality and reputation of the flagship full-time MBA programs at the schools, rather than the schools themselves.

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  • MatFr

    Hi everyone!

    I am surprised that IE, well ranked nearly everywhere including here, is not popping up in the comments.
    What is your opinion on this school/program guys?
    Thanks
    Mickael

  • American in Paris

    All, you need to check out the Canadian MBA programs if you are looking for value for money, especially the Quebec schools. Multicultural, multi-lingual, international student bodies and networks, and international faculties. Canadian tradition of publing funding for higher education and lower cost of living, again especially in Quebec. You should consider at Ivey, Queen’s, Rotman, and HEC Montreal. Outside US does not only mean Europe.

  • Vladmir

    OXBRIDGE APPLICANT

    Kellogg is a fantastic Business School ! Don’t know too much abt the one yr program but I have friends who did the 2 Yr. They are the most genuinely down to earth and friendly people. They also all happen to be high fliers.
    While Wharton has more cache esp in finance, it does help when atleast away from the work place you are in a great school in a congenial environment.
    CBS 16 month is a great option as Sami points out. If you don’t get your banking role, you can rejoin your current employer. A CBS MBA will in-fact get you a better role in Ldn than an LBS MBA despite CBS being in New York. Do remember, the US is still the market. Its easy to move from West to East but not East to West. Howmany bankers move from HK to London or London to NY? However almost all can move from NY to Ldn or NY to HK.
    Same goes for Bskewl.

    RAMI – INSEAD is a good school but I’m sure it doesn’t need an ambassador flooding the forum – I see you’ve uploaded your comments on discussions on other articles. One is sufficient.
    Moreover some food for thought: pls see
    http://mba.insead.edu/documents/MBA_EMPLOYMENT_STATISTICS.pdf
    This showcases the different nationalities – it has the number of people from India at 68 and France at 68 at INSEAD for 2010. HOWEVER certain countries have disproportionate representation to their population such as Lebanon 26, Isreal 15, The Netherlands 30 odd. Why? Quite simply because aside from the main nationalities British, India, France and the US – Insead does not have much a clientele and to show diversity they will take a greater portion of their applicants from other countries.
    As for the US schools – well John’s insightful article highlighted just how popular they are with international candidates and its relative difficulty.

  • Oxbridge Applicant

    Vladmir: I like the CBS 16 Month option better. Not only is CBS stronger in Finance but it also has strong placements in BBs/top flight companies.

    A Clarification on Banking being US centric: Do you think that this applies to UK Banks like RBS, Barclays, and Lloyds? I can see the American BBs skewing in favor of U.S. Business schools, however I’d like to know about the European banks as well.

  • Me

    It is fascinating to see how passionate people get about US / non US comparisons.

    Just dropping some personal, biased, incomplete, but true and first-hand feedback from an Inseader:
    – Accepted at Insead without any scholarship versus accepted at CBS with full tuition offered, and Chicago with 40k$. In both cases i did not even write an essay to get the scholarship.
    – Many students here turned down offers from the above mentioned schools. I also know some who turned down Stanford, Wharton, MIT, NYU, etc … This doesn’t include only Euro or US students.
    – I am a finance guy with CFA and am still learning a lot in this so-called consulting school
    My comments above are not meant to be disrespectful of other schools, I was truly impressed with some of them. The strongest choice for me was actually versus Chicago -really loved the curriculum- and IMD -really loved the general spirit and intensity. Was a bit disappointed at LBS and CBS. Friends from Kelogg and Wharton did not convince me at all that there was more over there.
    Only ding received: HBS .. out of reach! forces humility, they’re good.

    I do not intend to demonstrate anything here, just putting my own story in the global picture.

  • Vladmir

    ME
    Good for you !
    Instead of explaining the great offers you supposedly recieved why don’t add some constructive information on why you chose INSEAD over the others. Absolutely no value added – no specific reasons cited whatsoever.
    P.S CBS offerring a full scholarship and Chicago offering only $40. When I last checked CBS was more difficult to get into; acceptance rate at roughly15% vs 22% for Booth.

  • Mario

    @Vladimir,
    this guy from Israel explain why he turned down MIT sloan for INSEAD? as many many students do..it is all about fit and career goals..but in term of quality and prestige INSEAD is on the same level of the M7..in fact..in middle east and asia..it rules..
    http://my-mba-blog.blogspot.com/search/label/INSEAD

  • Vladmir

    Hello Mario.

    I spent 3 minutes scrolling his blog. In his blog he justifies his desicion to go to INSEAD over MIT as the FT ranking has INSEAD higher. Might have included another reason, but I haven’ t got the time of the day to devote more time to some random’s blog. He also seems convinced the FT ranking is comprehensive. I’d be skeptical of anyone paying any weight to the FT or Economist Rankings. These editors have been schooled in education systems that do not appreciate the attributes that make great business schools or even for that matter undergraduate institutions.

    Additionally pls note in his own blog he states a list of alumni most likely to recruit from their school. LBS and INSEAD while high aren’t as high as the US schools.

    Don’t get me wrong. Insead is a good school. But as John as highlighted in his post, I don’t think its at the same level as a TOP 8 or even TOP 10 US school. Its less competetive to get in. And most people go only because its one year. Moreover INSEAD are each year consistently increasing their intake. Add to this the RIDICULOUS 2 Month exchange program they have. You actually only spend 10 months at INSEAD with this option. Hardly any time to make true connections and learn much!

  • Vladmir

    I started posting on Poet and Quants to contribute to a productive discussion. I believe by sharing accurate and frank insights, we all can get a better idea and feel of the great bschool program out there. I reiterate I do not believe INSEAD and LBS or any of the European Schools are bad schools but I cannot emphasize more that they are not near the equals of the US TOP 10. More importantly I believe they are over hyped and the Economist and FT rankings are criminal in their inaccurate reflection of schools.
    Now let me start by explaining to you all this over hype in European programs and how it came about and how it shall diminish.
    Education has historically been and continues to be linked to a county’s economic status or hegemony. As the US became the dominant economic power, so did the status of its IVY league reach world renown. People from all over the world wanted to send their kids to these universities. Back in the day, when France was a great economic power, the Grand Ecoles were colossals for higher learning. Some UK Universities are still great centres but arguably past their peak with the exception of Oxbridge. Until 2003-2004, the Top US business schools were poles apart from the European in terms of status and prestige. The great bull market of 2003-2008 did wonders for the European schools. The Spanish economy grew in leaps and bounds and suddenly the 3 Spanish Schools, IESE, IE and ESADE came up on peoples radars. The bubble that was the financial services industry thrusted LBS on to the global finance scene. And INSEAD was helped by an overall buoyant Eurozone Economy. Sure the US was growing but it did not grow as much as Spain, which by its current unemployment rate of almost 20% we now know was a spectacular bubble. London overtook New York as the world financial centre and LBS reaped the rewards. Additionally as India and China started registering phenomenal growth rates, so too did their business schools grow in acclaim – ISB and CEIBS. However, with Europe in structural decline now and finance not as big as it was in Ldn, the European schools will have a tough time going forward and the mean may be reverted. Indians and Chinese and Asians overall are the highest proportion of International students. They increasingly started to look at these European schools since 03 but going forward if Europe continues its decay, they will shun the schools in entirety. And we have seen INSEAD and LBS DO NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT LOCAL STUDENTS TO FILL THIS VOID. The US schools do. The US Bschools in-fact lost out due to the US economy faltering in 07 and work visas not being offered for Intl students pursuing US MBAS.
    Despite this though almost every Asian student still recognizes the power of a US Education and the US business school. Just take a look at John’s analysis on International students and how many Asians apply to US schools. The fact is US education is gold in the East and it will remain so.
    More importantly, the US economy is in recovery mode. At worst, the US will recover sooner than Europe as it got into the mess before Europe. Moreover Europe as a whole is in structural decline. I truly believe in history and the history of empires. The Europeans led the way but their civilization will go through decay like other great civilizations did. Asia’s time has come and the coming years will be of the great Asian civilization. However while I don’t think the US will be as great a civilization as it was, it will nonetheless continue to prosper. Firstly the US dollar is the reserve currency of the world, secondly the US still has the best educational institues of the world. Civilizations start to decline, the minute their centres of learning get depleted. UK, French and other European universities have limited funding and endowments and are crumbling. The US ones are still in great health!

  • Mario

    @vladimir,

    if you don’t like FT and Econ rankings due to their inaccuracy, can you please explain why BW put COX ahead of Yale, Tuck. and many other prestigious schools, and why it put DUKE ahead of Tuck?!! another point: why BW do separate ranking for the Full time MBA and mix the ranking with Ex MBA and executive education??!!
    sir, HBS has an endowment of more than 2 billion by far bigger than most of highly ranking universities, let alone just business schools… however, INSEAD managed to put itself (with this limited endowment) to be competitor with those giants..!! you should appreciate that..
    yes, US education generally is no doubt the best..but we are talking about very professional and management training program MBA..
    I strongly encourage prospective students to look into the top consulting firms website and see where do they recruit which campuses they visit..this is strong sign of the strength of the school..just go for Mckinsey or Bain website and see the schools they list..

  • Vladmir

    Mario –
    1. What exactly is your point ? Are you wanting to say INSEAD is great and better than HBS, WHARTON, STANFORD, COLUMBIA, MIT, KELLOGG, TUCK and CHICAGO?
    2. Yes the consultancies recruit from there for non US roles. I have maintained INSEAD is a consulting school.But anyone who goes to the above US schools will get a role in any MBB office the world over.
    3. The FT and the Economist aren’t flawed but are criminal.
    4. I have been considerate to respond to you but for the future I want to refer you to the new dean of Insead, Deepak Jain, who came from Kellogg. Pls ask him how Insead compares with the above mentioned US schools.

    and finally go to any French Business leader from INSEAD if you are non French and see how much he cares you went to INSEAD.

    ariverderci

  • Mario

    @vladimir,

    to be fair, lots of INSEAD students find it too fast to do an MBA within 10 months, and most of them I met complain about that..but it is all about trade-off and balance thing..I do believe that it is all about the student himself not the program..you should pick the best program for you not based on brand or ranking..in fact, I met one guy graduated from HBS and he couldn’t manage to get a job with Mckinsey..because he has an influence to getting into HBS despite it is not the appropriate school for him..he told me that the professional employers highly regard the one who selected the best program for his profile not for just prestige..in fact, they found (the employers) that when some one turn down Stanford for example for Duke is better (not because duke is better than stanford) but because duke is better for him..(he is in healthcare btw)..
    having said that: if you don’t have strong experience in business then TWO years is better..but if you already have BS in economics or business and worked as business analyst at blue chip firm..then most people would recommend one year as wise choice..this will predict the one’s sense of time and money..not just brand..

  • Mario

    @Vladimir,
    you still didn’t explain why BW put COX ahead of TUCK and Yale?!!!

  • Vladmir

    MARIO -
    All rankings have flaws and so does business week. However The FT and the Economist aren’t flawed but are criminal.
    Now Goodbye!

  • Mario

    @vladimir

    and these flaws do not affect BW credibility..but they make FT and Ec criminal !!!!! thank you for the double standards..
    !!

  • Mario

    @Vladimir

    this is for you: when b schools talk about selectivity and high standards of admission, can you bieleve HBS admitted some one without undergraduate degree! I wonder how was his gmat?!!, b schools are just for business not a ticket for success..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Gottesman

  • http://poetsandquants.com/members/jbyrne/ John A. Byrne

    Mario,

    The person to whom you refer had a written recommendation for admission to Harvard from the President of the U.S. There aren’t many MBA applicants who could have the President write an enthusiastic letter of recommendation. I have to believe he was a truly exceptional individual for Harvard to have accepted him.

  • http://poetsandquants.com/members/jbyrne/ John A. Byrne

    Mario,

    Every ranking system is flawed. There are no exceptions. However, some ranking systems have methodologies make more inherent sense in measuring the quality of an MBA program than others. We address all of these flaws in our analysis of the major rankings and in our own ranking that places different weights on each of the most important lists.

  • Mario

    John
    Thank you for your clarification. if you allow me to just explain why did I post those comments:

    First:

    the frustration I have seen and always happening for many great applicants when they got rejected because of gmat or gpa..and the most unconvinced reply from the admission officers when they say: we use gmat to predict the applicant ability to master the course work! management education is not a rocket science, all people whom studied basic calculus and statistics can easily handle and MBA curriculum. so, there is really no point of just replying to a good applicant that your gmat isnt competitive, they should say we have no seat for you, thats it..when I post about Mr Gottesman I just wanted to show to all applicants that the academic ability is not in same importance in admission to B school as it is with law school or medicine.. the business in real world is all about connections and mutual benefits..Mr Gottesman family is in historical relation with Mr Bush family for decades..so, please B schools dont talk about academic ability..and to know carefully about Mr Gottesman, he is now a principal in a very prestigious private equity firm in boston which most of his portfolio cover companies deeply involved with the pentagon and department of defense, he did this in only TWO years..welcome to the real world..my point is again: Business schools should not put pressure on students and show them that the admitted ones are just THE BEST..no the admitted ones are the most powerful and connected..with some exceptions of course..and just to reminder, the gmat itself is just 20 years old!

    second:

    I admit that poetsandquants ranking is truly the most credible and make sense in all its analysis.

    and always we should not disregard good business schools just because we don’t like them or they aren’t belonging to our country or culture, NO,

    we should make it clear for all prospective MBAs that MBA is not everything and they should not kill themselves for branding and prestige LIFE IS FILLED BY OPPORTUNITIES, the success not only by an MBA.. they should consider the most appropriate program for them if the program is well rounded and accredited by accreditation bodies like AASCB, and can help them in achieving their goals..

    in all cases, I appreciate this thoughtful discussion..

    Regards,

  • Remi

    MatFr,

    I have some friend went to IE. If you want to purse a start-up, thats the place. If you want to go to 4Big consulting, none of MBA guarantees you If you dont have the right skills or If your undergrad scores are low or If you are older. I know people from HBS and IE but I know people in 4B from both MBAs. Personally I dont know people from Goldman Sachs, but apparently there are also people from good banking background. So, I am quite confident with IE

    About the rankings; I think ranking is important, it gives an idea about the school and I think non-US ranking is reasonable. If you are young go to top 10 US MBAs, you enjoy 2 years, and do internship which puts your feet into a potential company. If you are older, I think EU schools could be a good option.

    At the end of the day, I think If you can get in top 20 US or top 10 EU schools, and If you have a credible employer, I believe you can be quite ok for your future career.

  • kravishankar

    How would you decide between booth and Insead France where I have admissions. I have 5 years experience in a multinational FMCG post engineering graduation

  • European Candidate for 2012

    Again, my question is regarding PhD programs in Europe and/or Canada — which are top notch programs for PhD programs in Europe and/or Canada? Can you list a few? I understand for PhD progarms it is different — i.e. candidate should first determine his/her research interests and see if a particular prog. is a good fit i.e. if the program has faculty with similar research interests who’d be interested in serving as a mentor/advisor, and this is perhaps the most important since 1. faculty would be serving as my advisor for 4-5 years and 2. faculty strengths determine networking, research publication etc. opportunities for myself as a student post graduation. But again, feedback on part of John, Vladimir etc. would be immensely helpful.

    How are Canadian progs like Richard Ivey, UToronto regarding outside of Canada say in the U.S. etc.?

  • Mario

    worth reading the link below about the consulting schools..supported by figures and numbers..
    http://www.consultant-news.com/article_display.aspx?p=adp&id=8295

  • Mario

    continuing the previous post..this is the official report..
    http://www.consulting-times.com/december2011/december2011.pdf

  • Vladmir

    Mario –

    For a change something interesting from your side. I think you again interpreted the data incorrectly. LBS and INSEAD are placing their students at MBB primarily ouside of the US. The US school students have the luxury of not only working in the US offices but also outside at MBB offices. I don’t think LBS and INSEAD have the same standing with MBB offices in the US.

  • Mario

    @vladimir,

    you are in 21st century..think global..and act big..go beyond boarders..don’t stuck to tunnel vision..things always change..the market is the whole world..who is pioneered the “global” idea in business education particularly MBA (case studies, targeted customers, different languages and cultures) ? who added to them the global flavor for almost 60 years…. I let you answer..

    calm down man..its just pointviews..no big deals..

  • europeancandidate2012

    Mario/Vlad- take your individual conversation offline please! It’s frustrating and embarrassing. John, I look forward to your feedback and response regarding my query.

  • europeancandidate2012

    Vlad- suck it up and read this: Cornell hires INSEAD professor as Dean…and according to you, apparently INSEAD and European B-Schools don’t even match up to a top 10-15 BSchool based out of the U.S. In all honesty, while I appreciate your feedback and research, watch the tone of your language and get over yourself and “your” insights and research. To you U.S. Bschools may mean the world—to others, European BSchools may mean the world, and for valid and legitimate reasons.

  • http://poetsandquants.com/members/jbyrne/ John A. Byrne

    European Candidate,

    Unfortunately, I’m not as familiar with PhD programs as I would like to be, especially those in Europe and Canada. Given your aims, however, I would look at this a little differently. Why not go to a school whose faculty produces leading edge research in the field of your interest and passion. Before getting into the application phase, simply call or write the key profs, tell them of your interest, and ask about the process of taking on assistant researchers, etc. You can get to the bottom of this fairly easily through the research rankings done by a couple of profs at the business school of the University of Texas at Dallas. We did this story on the ranking last year. But you can go to the website of the school and get under the hood of the ranking by discipline to see exactly what you need. Good luck!

  • europeancandidate2012

    John, Highly appreciate your feedback — much, much appreciated. Thanks,
    P.S. I personally (and know/feel many other readers out there) prefer short, crisp, and accurate feedback without a condescending tone or degrading/demeaning attitude. This forum and initiative is great — we can all benefit less the bickering, but through an appreciation of different viewpoints, while exposing our own blindspots. Let us keep it that way :) Best wishes to all.

  • Vladmir

    @EuropeanCandidate2012: I’m glad to see you’ve been reading my comments. I believe in freedom of speech and I shall continue to voice my views and opinions.

    I shall now resort to a more important topic facing business school selection: Are general mgmt programs the best way going fwd?

    What do I mean by the above? Well over the last decade, finance dominated the business school industry. Finance was one of the largest sectors of employment for newly minted MBA’s and Finance sent a disproportionate amount of candidates to do their MBA’S. In the aftermath of the financial crisis, finance domination of business school did suffer. Some of the tops schools became less finance biased and many adcom members wanted more tangible skills. Traders were deemed asset shufflers. Experience in private equity, a very selective field was considered worthwhile only if candidates actually had input into the portfolio of companies the fund owned rather than conducting ‘due diligence’ or financial modelling. However in 2011 and even back in 2010 to a certain extent, finance enrollment and employment is getting back up. CBS sent over 50% into finance, Chicago 41%, and Wharton over 40%.
    I cannot help but ponder are these numbers sustainable? Finance has and is seeing an ongoing conslidation and restructuring as an industry. We’ve seen this with many industries over the years, manufacturing in the West and the Chemical industry. Heck – since 2007 we’ve seen the demise of Bear Sterns, Lehman, ABN Amro, MF Global, Fortis, Dexia, Dresdner Kleinworth, Merrill Lynch to name a few. Even RBS is now shutting its equities busines. Sure some banks were bought over by competitors, but nowhere near the same amount of people are in employment.

    So the key questions are –

    1. Will it be best going forward to pursue an MBA at a general mgmt school – HBS / TUCK / KELLOGG / SBS / ROSS / SLOAN as opposed to finance specialist schools – CBS / WHARTON / CHICAGO / LBS / NYU /TEPPER / USC ?

    I really don’t know – would love to hear your comments.

    Do remember that Finance does still recruit from the general mangement schools and I guess the competetion will be less intense as there are a diverse range of employers. Moreover these schools with the exception of HBS generally have smaller fulltime 2 yr MBA classes ( Wharton and CBS 800+)

    2. Does there need there need to be a structural shift or consolidation in the finance focused schools? There are generally one or two really known schools for each field i.e Kellogg one for marketing .. Sloan Biotech .. Berkely Tech.
    One thing I should say is Kudos’ to LBS which has diversifed, sending only 30% into finance.

  • Mario

    INSEAD is not a french b school, is not an american b school, is not an european b school..INSEAD defined its identity some 50 years ago..before the internet..before the globalization..its a business school for the world…a true global b school for all cultures..all colors..all man kind..all times all places..its way has been adopted by all the top schools in and outside US and yet couldn’t catch up..its PhD graduates teach at all the M7 B schools.. its powerful alumni cover all aspects of businesses everywhere..with its status as stand alone business school (not belonging to any uni) managed to put itself on par with schools that has vast backup of resources..its a miracle of business education..

  • https://twitter.com/#!/fanbursatil @fanbursatil

    I am currently studying at IE business school, and I can say that it is a great school, trully global, diverse and with alumni presence everywhere.

    Among the professor I’ve received tuition from are CEOs CFO of large companies. The program blended alternatives really are great and force learning.

  • Elisabeth

    European Candidate,

    I look at PhD programmes in Europe and may add something. As you correctly guessed, matching your research interest with advisor’s work is key. Look at faculty’s website for research interests, publications in high profile journals (check: ISI Web from Thomson Research or ScienceDirect citation for impact), service as journal editor, conferences and guest speakers series where other academics present their work. Citations indicate the network of other researchers in this topic. Check title of previous PhD candidates and their career. Funding is key as well.

    For most programmes, the research proposal of 1,500 words is the most important part of your application and some unis even list books to prepare you how to write research proposals. You will need to master this even later for grants applications. Some unis have good teaching for undergrads, but are lighter in research whereas others are more focused on research. Even within in the same subject, there are nuances of thoughts and methodologies. Of course, you need good grades as some faculties require first class degrees for admission.

    I agree that sledging other BSchools is destructive and does not add value to dialogue.

  • europeancandidate2012

    Thank you for your feedback Elisabeth :)

  • http://www.aserworld.com Napoleón

    Congratulations to the IE Business School. The time I spent as a student of MBA was spectacular, changed my life. I recommend to all those who want a first-line training.

  • Me

    Hi John, everyone,
    Anybody knows when the new FT ranking is due?
    Cheers,

  • http://poetsandquants.com/members/jbyrne/ John A. Byrne

    Me,

    The new FT ranking comes out on Monday, Jan. 30th.

  • Nedyalko Terziev

    I agree with Vladimir’s suggestion that a strong national economy leads to having strong schools (or at least better ranked schools). Still, I have hard time agreeing with the conclusion- go to a US school because the US economy is still good while Europe’s faltering. I am sorry but BOTH Europe and US are faltering. As much as there is negative publicity about the future of the Eurozone right now, the US dollar and its future status as a world reserve currency are very much in question too. BOTH economies are buried in public debt and BOTH have consistently been fiscally irresponsible- not just since 2008 but for decades.

    This is why I choose Insead Singapore for the full duration of my MBA program! I have been now for two weeks in Singapore and have been amazed by Insead and the quality of the students but even more amazed by Singapore. Guys, stop arguing US vs European school – the future is in Asia!

  • Teddy

    I was fortunate enough to get into one of the UE U.S schools several years back and loved my experience. Since then I’ve worked in a couple of different roles (MBB and industry) across the US, Europe and Asia and have been involved fairly actively in recruiting MBA grads. In most cases there was a fairly consistent top 10 – or 9 to be more accurate – the M7 plus LBS and INSEAD. If a candidate went to one of those schools the panel would automatically look at the CV and then judge their overall profile (candidates from other schools obviously made the cut as well, but they had a harder job). Once we got through the first cut the school usually became irrelevant and we focused on each individual’s background and the skills they would bring to the role. That said, one thing that has become apparent having now worked with MBA grads for over 5 years is the difference in cultural awareness that the LBS and INSEAD students have versus a number of the top US grads – in some cases it was like night and day. Depending on your outlook of the world and future career aspirations, this may not matter to you but I would encourage as many MBA students to expand their horizons as much as possible – even if only through a short 3-4 month exchange from your home school. One last point for future MBA students – location can help massively in your networking efforts so keep that in mind when determining a shortlist of schools. I’m currently based in London for the winter and meet a lot of LBS students face-to-face at presentations and other networking events which gives them a slight advantage when it comes to securing an interview. Of course, if you want to work in New York then London, F’bleu or even California probably won’t be as good an option as a NE school.

    NB: Future MBAs – it goes without saying, but trust your gut and don’t rely too much on anonymous opinions you read on the internet (the above included)

  • Telecom_guy

    Hi John,
    Why are Rotman and Ivey ranked lower than other Canadian b-schools ? Is it because they don’t pariticipate in the economist and forbes rankings? I’m surprised because, in terms of reputation, Ivey, Rotman and Schulich usually have the top 3 MBA programs in Canada.

  • Nalin

    I think its a fair ranking. There are a few surprises but overall the ranking looks good.

    US top 7 vs INSEAD/LBS discussion is never going to end. Nor its going to yield any positive outcome. It completely depends on MBA applicant whether to choose US or non-US colleges. I have no doubts in my mind that non-US especially europeans schools are far more international than their US counterparts. It could be because of the size of the countries. But you get a better international exposure in european schools. US schools predominately have north-american students. Part of the reason is that they do not understand and appreciate rest of world’s education as much as they claim to do. However US schools are more established and mature.

    There was also a point made about the size of economy and its influence of B schools ranking. It is an astute observation, and seems credible. US B schools have been benefitted by the might of US economy. With US economy still in recovery mode and a new regulation on employment visa in US almost everyday international student will show caution in applying to US schools in future. Same is true for UK based schools.

  • Henry

    What accounts for the huge discrepancy with schools like Hong Kong UST and Imperial College for example?
    What does the FT see in these schools that others don’t?

  • Elisabeth

    Imperial College business school benefits massively from its established parent university’s ranking in teaching and research in core subjects such as medicine, engineering and sciences (equivalent to UK’s MIT). Ditto for its industry contacts with recruiters. Imperial encourages cooperation between business school and other departments. Honestly, the only subject of strength at Imperial College business school is entrepreneurship. In other subjects, other UK business schools tend to steal Imperial’s thunder. Let alone internationally. Incidentally, it has one of the highest tuition fees for a mediocre programme and it struggles to fill its regular MBA spots. Also plenty complaints about teaching, high turnover of mostly freshly minted profs, and iffy career centre. Imperial does only well in the FT ranking and I witnessed a former dean half jokingly admitted in a presentation that Imperial’s good FT spot cost him a few lunches.

    HKUST’s faculty does a decent job in publication in peer reviewed journals and launched a few research initiatives, it also has excellent exchanges with top business schools such as Kellogg, NYU. Backed by the booming Chinese and local economy, demand/salary for its graduates has been strong. The admin has internationalised its faculty, student body, broaden recruiters and increased GMAT average over the past ten years. Though a late starter, HKUST has overtaken local rivals HKU & Chinese Uni.

  • Henry

    Thanks Elisabeth. So does Poets and Quants foresee a major change in its ranking of HKUST or is it still too early for an outside opinion to tell?

  • Elisabeth

    @ Henry – Like Columbia in the US, HKUST is very concerned about the placement pipeline of its graduates. The adcom checks the employability of applicant in essays and interviews. Non-traditionals or students who wish to explore academic options face an uphill battle. As a result, the employment stats of HKUST look good. HKUST plays the ranking game well and comes out as one of the stronger regional schools in Asia.

    Imperial business school is overrated and is not even respected in the UK.

  • Philip

    Hi,

    I just want to know, where is Grenoble Graduate School of Business and Edhec in the ranking?, as they were placed 54 & 63 in Economist ranking.

  • http://poetsandquants.com/members/bento/ Bento

    @MatFr.

    IE Business School is a fairly new player in the top-tier MBA game in comparison to schools such as INSEAD or LBS. However, i think it is exactly because of that lack of heritage/tradition that IE has been getting a lot of praise and recognition in the rankings. IE does some very innovative stuff with their curriculum, teaching approach and programs (e.g. the Brown/IE Executive MBA) and IE is constantly improving and reacting to new market needs etc. IE’s brand is obviously not as well known as INSEAD or LBS, especially in the Consulting or Finance industry. However, I am an IE MBA grad i could not have been happier with the academics, the incredible caliber and diversity of the student body (geo and background) and the overall experience.

  • Saleem Khan

    I enjoyed comments on this post more than post itself. :)

    Well, this discussion cleared lot of my concerns too. I am working in Middle East and planning to pursue EMBA from one of good business school. My one friend has just finished his EMBA from LBS Abu Dhabi Campus. On my inquiry, he told that LBS is just a name and hardly adds real value in professional learning and knowledge. Though he is already working at senior management position but he strictly forbade me to take admission in LBS EMBA program.

    I am also having feeling that no business school can compete with Top Level US Business Schools. It is not only Class Room or Professor that let you to learn, it is a whole Campus and Learning Atmosphere that let you to learn and apply knowledge in professional career. I am not keen to add just one extra degree in my RESUME, but I’m serious to learn new skills that I missed in regular MBA from my country. So for me US business schools are the best to learn. Sometime we do not take decision merely based on return on investment.

    If I’m not wrong then I have a big question on the selection criteria of EMBA students. Most of schools wants to give admission to already successful and top managers of companies and rejects the one who did so much effort in giving GMAT and then saving money from small salary to take admission. Really, it means that Business Schools are more concerned about themselves instead of training middle level managers. This is my personal observation…I may be wrong in concluding their selection criteria.

    Regards,
    Saleem

  • Elisabeth

    @ Philip: In FT’s global MBA ranking, HEC is the only French MBA programme ranked at 18. Strangely Grenoble and Edhec Lille (along with other excellent French MBAs such as Essec, EMLyon and ESCP) are not ranked in the FT. This can be attributed to a number of reasons. MBA programmes need to be a few years old to collect alumni data with at least 20% response rate per class and minimum of 20 alumni responses. For instance, Essec revamped its global MBA and launched it only very recently. Some French schools may fall short on FT’s criterion of diversity for class/faculty/mobility and idea generation such as research rank of PhD education and faculty’s publication. I recall that smaller French schools don’t even have PhD programmes. In FT’s European business school ranking from Nov. 2011, the aforementioned French business schools did quite well.

    Germany couldn’t produce a ranked MBA programme in this ranking whereas Spain punches well about its weight with 3. Needless to say, British MBA programmes do disproportionately well in the FT and some mediocre schools make it to the top100 against all odds.

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