The FT’s Historical MBA Rankings

by John A. Byrne on

Chicago's Booth School of Business

Chicago’s Booth School of Business

You’d be hardpressed to find a business school that can match the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business’ gains in both excellence and prestige over the past dozen years.

The quality and diversity of Booth’s students has seen singificant improvement, with average GMAT scores for the latest entering class now 719, up from 687 in 2001. Women now represent nearly 36% of the class, up from just 27% some 12 years ago, and international students total a third of the class. Last year’s average starting salary for graduating Booth MBAs hit $113,220, up 33% from the $85,000 average in 2001.

No less impressive, over the past 12 years Booth has tripled student scholarships and doubled its endowed chairs, allowing the school to hire and to retain more senior faculty than ever before. The school’s endowment–perhaps the best single metric of its health–has never been higher: $511 million, more than double the $197 million it had in 2001. And the endowment, no less, doesn’t even include a $300 million gift the school received in 2008 from alumnus David Booth. It is the largest gift ever made to a business school.

Few schools can boast as distinguished or as rewarded a business faculty than Chicago which lays claim to six Nobel Prize Winners. Eugene Fama, widely recognized as the “father of modern finance,” became the first recipient of three major prices for finance research in the past seven years. Booth professor Christopher Yenkey and Ronald Burt captured major awards from the Academy of Management last year for their cutting-edge work on networks. Earlier this year, Booth professors Erik Hurst and Tobias Moskowitz won the prestigious Kauffman Prize Medal for distinguished research in entrepreneurship.

CHICAGO BOOTH HAS DROPPED EIGHT PLACES TO 12TH IN THE FT RANKINGS SINCE 2001

Yet, when you consult The Financial Times’ rankings of the best global MBA programs, you would think Chicago is in a deeply troubled freefall. Booth went from being ranked fourth in 2001, behind only Wharton, Harvard and Stanford, to 12th place this year, its worst showing in the past dozen years. Against the school’s dramatic improvement during this same time span, the eight-place drop defies rational explanation or reason.

That’s especially true when viewed against The Financial Times ranking for the school that has placed ahead of Chicago both this year and last: the Indian Institute of Management (IIM) in Ahmedabad, India. The differences between these two institutions are stark and dramatic, yet they sit next to each other in The Financial Times’ rankings. IIM debuted at a ranking of 11th in 2011 after never having been ranked among the top 100 MBA programs by the British newspaper in the previous ten years. Yet, its graduates reported average starting salaries last year of only $29,181–more than $84,000 less than Chicago’s MBAs. IIM’s graduates who stayed in India made even less: just $25,679, not even as much as the average signing bonus of $27,680 for a Chicago MBA last year.

What’s more, IIM’s student diversity is among the weakest of any business school in the world: only 6% of its students are female and only 7% are from outside India. Its endowment is virtually non-existent. A campaign launched in 2008 to raise $50 million in an alumni endowment fund has reportedly raised less than $2 million in three years. Chicago has 38 MBA alumni clubs scattered all over the world, a testament to its truly global reach, while IIM has a half dozen alumni chapters outside of India. And IIM’s faculty, however good by Indian standards, is no match whatsoever for Chicago with its half dozen Nobel laureates. Even the Financial Times’ own analysis ranks IIM 94th out of 100 schools in faculty research published in the 45 top scholarly journals, compared to Chicago’s research rank of sixth place.

THE FT RANKS INDIA’S IIM AHEAD OF BOOTH EVEN THOUGH ITS GRADS MADE ONLY $29,181 LAST YEAR

So how can The Financial Times justify ranking the Indian Institute of Management in the same league with Chicago Booth? Never mind giving IMM a better ranking than Chicago.

It is one of the confounding puzzles of the rankings game. No matter who does the survey or how the ranking is put together, peculiar findings are common. They occur because of methodologies that are rife with metrics that often have little if any relationship to the true quality of a business school or are based on highly flawed surveys that can lead people to very odd assumptions.

Related Stories:

U.S. News & World Report’s Historical MBA Rankings — 2012 to 2001
BusinessWeek’s Historical MBA Rankings — 2010 to 1988
Ranking The Rankings

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  • rollingstone

    Hi John,

    I wouldn’t completely agree with your last sentence. One of the key criteria for ranking business schools should be the qua,ity of jobs you get at the end of it. In this aspect, IIM is far ahead of INSEAD. As an example, this year, over 50% of INSEAD’s Jan 2012 batch are not doing an internship (I got this information from 2 friends from that batch). Admittedly, there will be a number of students who don’t want to do an internship, but a bigger portion of that 50% are people who DID NOT GET an internship. How can you claim to be a top school if companies are not even willing to give your students a 2-month internship?

    At IIM-A, on the other hand, internships are a curricular requirement and the institute ensures that every single student gets an internship. Also, IIM is the only major business school globally that boasts a 100% employment rate hat graduation). And the quality of jobs that students land are great too. Almost all major investment banks recruit students for IBD, Markets and other FO positions. The top 3 consulting firms pick up 10-20 students each per batch. Global FMCG firms like P&G and Unilever pick up a good number of people for Marketinge2FFinance roles. Not to mention the rapidly growing Indian business houses that are raring to recruit IIM students for general management positions.  Many companies that recruit there are the same that come to recruit at the top 5 US business schools.

    A great way to compare the jobs that students from different schools get is to do an “Advanced Search” on LinkedIn. As an example:

    Number of IIM grads at Goldman Sachs: 220 (http://goo.gl/RrjP3)

    Number of INSEAD grads at Goldman Sachs: 46 (http://goo.gl/5DgLS)

    Number of LBS grads at Goldman Sachs: 153 (http://goo.gl/J3Tm1)

    Number of Booth grads at Goldman Sachs: 136 (http://goo.gl/4USQA)

    Number of Harvard grads at Goldman Sa#hs: 235 (http://goo.gl/thl1u)

    You can change the parameters to search for any other company in any other industry. And you could of course adjust for class size and other factors. But the results are pretty clear. If IIM is so much more inferior than these other schools (as many of you seem to suggest), why are all these great companies picking up IIM grads for good jobs?!

  • AB

    Ok, I am a bit tired of all this IIMA bashing going on around here. Just wanted to get some facts in perspective (I am an IIMA alum):

    Several of my batchmates at IIMA had offers from renowned overseas institutes including Booth and Standford PHDs who chose IIMA voluntarily. In fact, I have an economics degree from a globally top school, was a top performer there, and given the job I was in, with 3-4 years of experience could have gotten through a top-5 U.S. School with certainty. I however chose IIMA because it offered me the chance to do an MBA and pick a career of my choice with less than 8 months of experience. My company shortlists including everything ranging from McKinsey India Office to Goldman Sachs IBD London Office to Morgan Stanley Hong Kong Office. In fact I have known several of my friends from LBS who have struggled to get such jobs after school.

    I cannot think of any other institute in the world that will offer me such a plethora of opportunities straight out of school.

    In fact, rest assured, many of my batchmates come from the top-IITs in the country which is primarily where the top U.S. schools recruit from, and have left plum jobs to be at IIMA (I had batchmates who had left jobs with top consults like BCG- the kind of jobs that assure you entry straight in to the top-5 U.S. schools). In fact many of my batchmates had profiles that with greater experience would ensure entry in to a top-5 U.S. School.

    But if one wants to work in India then why wait for a U.S.MBA when similar opportunities can be presented to you faster with an Indian MBA and at a much lesser cost. 

    As for the quality of students, out going exchange students from IIMA to Booth/Columbia have had straight 4.0 CGPA’s there, year after year, demonstrating where things stand in terms of academic merit. In fact i was on exchange myself at a top 10 U.S. school and was disappointed at the average level of intellect and the slow pace of teaching. In fact, as my friend above pointed out, several Indians who do end up at the top 5 U.S. schools are those who have previously failed to make it to IIMA.

    Also it is important to note that you can get through a Harvard or a Stanford if your Dad is super rich and  gave you a really cool looking title in his company that you helped run (multiple examples here). However, with IIMA, no amount of money will help.

    Yes, of course where U.S. schools score is interms of the faculty, the diversity and the infrastructure. And yes, all of those things do definitely make for a significantly better MBA experience and the Indian institutes, including IIMA, have a long way to go there. However, IIMA, what has right is the most core ingredient in terms of its students. And that remains unparalleled.

    Also for all those salary numbers being quoted around, please understand that IIMA does have much greater dispersion in terms of salaries that would be seen at a U.S. BSchool. At the top end, it offers a one year ROI of 700%, unimaginable at a U.S. school. At the lower end, it offers an ROI of -10-20% which is often common with U.S. schools (it is to be noted that affirmative action for up to 50% of the seats is also responsible for this).

    As another point, it is pertinent to look at Indians who have made it big in the world of business, especially in India. You will likely find many more IIM A.B.C alums than Top-5 U.S. School grads.

    In a nutshell, many of the students at IIMA who have made it there on pure merit would have at least gotten through a top-10 U.S. school a few years later. However, they chose IIMA for the opportunities it presented now (especially true for those wanting to build a career in India), and fantastic ROI it offers. And that makes it truly exceptional.

  • Rakesh_sethi

    Satish, its bullshit.. Im an Indian who studied at IIT.. as far as I know none of my classmates are here in India and have propelled India.. 99% of employees in companies like Infy and Wipro are local engineering college students. I have even my friends who are IIM students moved out of India for greener pastures.
    I as an IITian totally regret this behaviour of Indians.. going abroad as if there is nothing good in India.  So a some of these candidates I know who have done an IIM degree also write GMAT and take an MBA abroad.. classic example Indira Nooyi. 
    Most of the money that govt has invested in Indian IITs and IIMs are wasting in ‘Brain drain’, so stop bullshitting about the pride of IIMs and ask your classmates to help India develop better — A fellow Indian IITian

  • Raghu_vamsh

    An IIM degree is a bullshit.. group of ppl who take CAT with no relevant experience are put together in a number crunching with no expertise on real world cases and are somehow taken into jobs.. useless check what Manoj Bhargava, CEO of 5-hour energy, says about the IIMs

    ” I think there is a big bias in India for educated people, you know it’s like “Oh, IITian and IIM, must be smart.” No, that only means he is smart in studying. It doesn’t mean he is smart in business. But no, we only hire IIT and IIM, which is total nonsense because they come out of these schools and they are clueless. They are taught by people who haven’t done business. Would you be willing to be operated by a surgeon who was taught by somebody who never did surgery? I mean it’s ludicrous.” –
    http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/full-transcript-in-conversation-with-manoj-bhargava-196198  

  • Stop_your_BS

    check what Manoj Bhargava, CEO of 5-hour energy, says about the IIMs
    ” I think there is a big bias in India for educated people, you know it’s like “Oh, IITian and IIM, must be smart.” No, that only means he is smart in studying. It doesn’t mean he is smart in business. But no, we only hire IIT and IIM, which is total nonsense because they come out of these schools and they are clueless. They are taught by people who haven’t done business. Would you be willing to be operated by a surgeon who was taught by somebody who never did surgery? I mean it’s ludicrous.” –http://www.ndtv.com/article/in…  

  • Dr.Sarkar

    Most important requirement of a top class college is top class students .And top class students can join only when selection process is transparent and purely meritbased.The top 5 US schools do not have transparent selection process.They have been manipulating their selection process often ignoring merit.And they are also marketing their schools claiming they are the best in the world.A study of their selection process reveal that they are neither ethical nor rational.This is totally in contrast with the practces followed by IIMA.Where merit and pure merit is the only criteria for selection of their students.As a result the students of MBA at IIMA are much much more brilliant than those of HBS,Stanford,MIT or Booth etc.Faculty at IIMA is also world class for MBA level.programme with 97 % ph.d.The campus of IIMA is also great where every students is given single hostel room for the entire course.The teaching at IIMA is intense and of better quality than most US schools.Lot of students from India join MBA at top US colleges every year.and nearly 80% of them are those failed to get into IIMA and often inspite of more than one attempts.Most top american companies have IIMA mba among their executives along with top US MBAs.These companies find MBAs of IIMA are second to none.IIMA for admission into MBA is the toughest in the world yet it is the cheapest programme (just 25 % of the cost of doing MBA at top 10 US schools).For long americans are thinking themselves to be the greatest in every field.But now they should realize that things are changing.New locations of economic success,educational excellence etc are emerging in other parts of the world.Let these fellows know that IIMA in india is one of the greatest school for MBA level programme.

  • Businessweekalum

    It’s clear John Byrne really loves Chicago Booth.  He’s a fan.  I get that, but I don’t see the need to get Wharton’s rankings wrong.  Wharton has been tied 1st and 3rd in rankings by FT and US News but he seems to make the mistake of lowering Wharton’s ranking by a notch in his P&Q’s ranking calculations. Now that he has jumped into the ugly world of rankings, Byrne needs to get his info right before criticizing other publications.

  • IAragonez

    Any ranking loses credibility when they put INSEAD, IESE, IE and maybe even London in their top ten….

  • IAragonez

    They are very good schools, no doubt, but their prestige doesn’t come close to schools like HBS, Stanford, Columbia, Wharton or Booth

  • Bull

    Bullshit. Not sure about IESE or IE but INSEAD and LBS are and have been top schools, perhaps even more prestigious than Booth or Columbia. Wharton and Yale endorse INSEAD as their peer top-tier school with alliance and Yale’s new Global Network of Advanced Management school partner.

  • IAragonez

    Look at the recruitment figures and the quality of the people at Booth and Columbia vs that of INSEAD you will find these two schools a lot harder to get into, therefore you will find a much more challenging environment with higher quality classmates. As I said I am not sure with LBS but still an MBA from a European school whether we like it or not  is not has not the same value as one from a top 10 school in the U.S. (aside from LBS) 

  • Bull

    Insead recruitment figures are actually impressive. Booth, CBS and lbs are finance schools. People who go to insead are many a time at insead for different purposes, more for general management and strategy than finance. I would compare insead with the same kind, i.e., tuck, hbs, Stanford, Kellogg. Booth in fact is easier to get into than CBS and insead, despite CBS trailing in rankings. Where are you getting this notion of better quality students at booth and CBS?

  • IAragonez

    Please never compare in any way Insead to HBS. HBS is it a completely different level in any career you want to pursue. Anyway, I say this because I know a lot of people and have worked with people from these three schools and of course there are exceptions put my personal experience has been way better with people from CBS or Booth that those from INSEAD, true I work in the finance sector. That being said it is not easier to get into Columbia or Booth than INSEAD. Simple metric Acceptance/applications 1. CBS 2. Booth 3.INSEAD. Also Insead has the lowest avg GMAT of the three (indicating the quality of your classmates, in a way although I do not believe the GMAT is an absolute measure of a students quality it is a good proxy).

  • IAragonez

    Also take a look at employment I got numbers for INSEAD and CBS. Also, I forgot to mention that the lower GMAT indicates it is easier to get in. in terms of employment 2011 3 months after graduation CBS 98% vs INSEAD 94%. And the most important thing, not a hard fact but I would bet my life on it. 99% of the people, if accepted to both schools, would go to CBS. It has the third highest yield after HBS and Stanford.

  • McKinsey

    Logic errors here:

    1) insead has a lot more students ~1000 vs CBS ~750. 4% difference Is meaningless.

    2) Also, you cannot logically deduce anything from the numbers alone without looking at students’ intention, i.e., were they looking to wait out till they want their dream jobs, etc.

    3) The yield you mention is only for Americam schools. Insead does not disclose that so its not an apple to apple comparison. Plus, CBS has an ED decision that binds many students which greatly helps their yield.

    Conclusion: your argument is baseless

  • Mckinsey

    Simple metric acceptance/applications show a comparison between CBS and booth only, not insead. Please stop embarrassing yourself by shoving your argument up yours. Insead do not disclose the info you are speaking of so your argument is yet again baseless.

    According to your GMAT ranking, Yale and NYU should be within the top 5 US bschools but they are not.

    I would discount your own personal experience dealing with grads from the three schools because well.. You don’t seem to be a good judge of anything really, listening to your “logical” reasoning. Were you rejected by insead?

    I would also compare insead with any top school including hbs. Both are the largest schools with ~1000 students, general management schools, and have similar grad employment record across industries, and are ranked as top tier. Sure, hbs has a brand name value no other school can easily trump perhaps except Yale but that’s about it.

    I would prefer Yale to booth or CBS, and CBS to booth with a huge margin, if I were to pick programs.

  • IAragonez

    1. The data I’m talking about is for 2011 disclosed in this site under the INSEAD profile, check it out.

    2. I never said I would rank schools based on GMAT scores alone although I do think better GMAT scores does serve as a proxy to a class’ quality. INSEAD has a really low GMAT average 704 which IS disclosed.

    3. I would never apply to INSEAD.

    4. I went to HBS.

    5. HBS, as I said is at a whole different level from Yale SOM, so please dont embarass yourself with those types of comments. Undergrad Harvard vs. Yale I have no clue but I guess they are similar.

    6. My guess is you probably go to INSEAD because you did not get into an american school. But lets not get emotional. If you had gotten into an american school even UT I bet you would have gone there instead.

    7. I dont embarass myself doing anything because although I do not have the time to build a hard case to prove my points, I do not need to because it is obvious.

    8. This is really amusing.

     

  • Mckinsey

    Your claim that you would never apply to insead and go to hbs has no bearing here because your personal preference does not translate to rankings.

    I haven’t checked insead profile on this website but would doubt where the website got such info when school does not disclose it.

    Higher GMAT scores translate to higher quantitative and logical reasoning and preparation, but 20 point difference max is not stsatiscally significant, according to GMAC itself. Having said that, lbs itself has around 700 GMAT and again, Yale and NYU have higher GMAT scores than Kellogg or booth or CBS.

    I’m a fan of insead’s and had applied to hbs, Wharton, insead and Stanford back in 2009. I got into all schools, matriculated at and graduated from Stanford and now work for McKinsey. My ex boss went to insead and a lot of partners at my company hail from insead too.

    Unlike you, I have no such bias toward American bschools and in fact, if not Stanford, I would have gone through an agony of choosing between insead and hbs with the former giving me a much broader view of the world and the latter just adding one more layer to my existing American network and education from Princeton university.

    It’s entertaining to see how you look down Yale som because Yale is truly a first rate institution and grooms leaders in all sectors. Yale som, whether you again personally disapprove or not, is a top tier bschool. Perhaps unlike my bschool experience, hbs brings out and amplify the undesirable quality in a person.

  • Mckinsey

    To add another point,

    I don’t think your reasoning makes sense when you say I’d go to Texas over insead just because one is American and the other isn’t. Born and raised in New Jersey, although I may be biased sometimes, I wouldn’t go to any length to go to just “any” bschool in the US or elsewhere. It has to be top tier then I’d look at what they are good at, irrespective of the location of the school.

    Perhaps, as your id suggests, I’m thinking that’s Mexicans’ or Hispanics’ way of thinking. Not everything my country produces is number one blindly.

    I’d question hbs adcoms’ ability to screen talents. They picked me so I think they know what they are doing but I’m not sure how you got chosen, because, based on your logical thinking, maturity, knowledge and understanding of various things, you are several cuts below my standard. It could be again that you are the best among Hispanic applicants?

  • IAragonez

     Amazing, not even 1 thing right (probably why you ended at McKinsey), I’m Spanish (even though I am European I dont get emotional about European scholls) but lived in Brazil most of my life. The place to be right now. Fortunately HBS didn’t take a chance with me as I have a very successful background. Proven. By now I am bored so good luck as a consultant haha  when I need help with my business I’ll probably hire McKinsey, or not.

  • Mckinsey

    Spanish, Mexicans, brazilians,. It’s all the same. We lump you guys and call you, Hispanics. I think you are a Texas material, rather than HBS. But then again, there are few of you to make it that far anyway. Your people must be proud. I have always wondered why you guys come and overpopulate my nation with such an admiration then end up working jobs that don’t get much respect.

    Chances are you will be dealing with Brazilian McKinsey kids who help out small players in Brazil, if they do that there. I specialize in a sector that involves significant capital and government intervention along with limited suppliers and only a few major players that have global impact. So whether or not you hire them, I couldn’t care less.

    You are the one who’s emotional here. And I’m the one who’s clearly logical. Looks like I was right on all along.

  • Dr.Sarkar

    To know the best business school you must see the answer to the following questions. Which is the MBA programme that has   the highest average GMAT score ? Which MBA programme gets the highest number of applicants per seat ? Which business school has the most transparent selection process purely based on merit.? Which school does not entertain things like essay writen at home and then submitted,recommendation letters in the selection process as these can be easily manipulated.Which school provide hostel accomodation to all MBA students which is very much beneficial for such programme ? In which school every student gets Internship ? Which is the toughest MBA programme to enter ? Which school produce top quality MBAs  of whom 100 % get placement even before they come out of their class ?.Answers to all these questions is One i.e IIM Ahmedabad ,India. 

  • Phoenix Kiula+poets

    I do not think that way all. 

  • Phoenix Kiula+poets

    Sorry, the site does not allow me to edit my comment. Your assertion of “top class” students assumes academic background. 

    To me, top class means: 

    1. I want people from many countries, because that will give me a strong inbuilt network in many countries, regardless of whether these students got 780 on the GMAT. 

    2. I want people with diverse experiences. The learning from these experiences will far outweigh math scores. I could learn stuff from books. I go to an MBA program for the group learning and bonding. 

    Your problem, whether you realize it or not, is that you are trying to equate quality with academic proficiency. 

    IIM would give me very smart nerds. 

    I suppose you are a nerd too, and from the mild bitterness in your posts, I presume you were dinged from international schools. 

    The real world and real companies do NOT function purely based on whether you can solve a complex problem of derivatives and integration. A number of very smart IIM types recognize this only when they join the real firms in offices outside India, whenever and if they do get outside India, that your math proficiency doesn’t mean squat. 

  • TA

    Here’s the thing guys. The IIM A degree is like a master of science degree. It is comparable to the top MS degrees in engineering, biochemistry, comp science etc at the universities in the United States and in the UK. I have friends at IIM A and I personally did my undergrad and MS in engineering at top 5 universities in the United States. I am considering an MBA degree in the next year or 2. The point is the top united states B schools rely on networking, experience through diversity  so their admission requirements are different.The IIM’s create number crunchers but they are damn good number crunchers, and through years of training and exposure many of them end up developing good personalities over time.
    Heres the thing with the IIM guys . Anyone who has been through the selection process and gotten in has sacrificed so much to get in that even if they have to read books, take classes, watch online videos of bill clinton to work their personality they will. 
    They will do what it takes to be  successful. Thats the power that the IIM’s inject into their graduates. There is no molly cuddling in these schools. 
    People at stanford business are told every day that they are the greatest people in the world for being there etc etc.
    there is none of that  baby talk at the IIMS.
    Look at interviews of entrepreneurs in silicon valley. Stanford puts up a bunch of them on youtube and google. Eric Baker is one that comes to mind. All of them unanimously say that business school was a vacation and they re all all either from stanford or harvard.
    Just google search Eric Baker Stanford.

    I took a couple of finance courses at Mccombs when I was getting my masters there and I cam e to the conclusion that a US MBA degree is like a big huge fancy movie . A $150 million movie with big stars, great action,CGI graphics, huge massive sets , a big canvas but the actual story line, the script is weak in it. But the movie  returns on its investment anyway because of their huge marketing and networking skills.The masters degrees and the IIM A/B/C etc degrees on the other hand are like small time productions. Maybe even independent productions. No big names behind them and they have a small investment maybe of about $30 million. But the script is bloody good. Its no frills, low cost , but hey it flies . I am not taking away from Harvard Stanford etc and the exposure you get there. At the end of the day you are not gonna wear your degrees and certificates around your neck the whole time. Companies want performance and if you wanna perform you will perform.

  • Phoenix

    And that is exactly why an IIM degree is more like an undergrad pressure cooker oven. 

    At a more experienced level, a draconian academic roster is not what a person is looking for. He is instead looking for learning from peers from *different* facets of the world, regardless of their math skills. He is looking for experiences of international travel and consulting. He is looking for a vast global network in many different fields. 

    That IIM grads go on to “eventually” develop personalities is useless. Many people who don’t go to school at  all will also develop personalities. 

    What an MBA student needs is the transformation DURING those 1-2 years. Not after. 

    You Indians besotted with the IIM have a different definition of an MBA. Please mull over it a little. 

    IIMs are a very good school. For something else. 

  • http://mbarankings.org/ MBA Rankings

    You also have to take into consideration the high level of importance  and prestige that The F.T. commands. To get a better understanding of the unique differences it is important to speak with someone who can offer some guidance.

  • Guest

    Ranking schools based on how many of people on linkedin say they went to those schools and now work at Goldman Sachs is severely flawed.  But I did come across something useful from these links.  IIM grads join Goldman Sachs in India as Analysts!!!!  And mostly not even as IB analysts.  In the rest of the world that is a job that undergrads get right out of school.  MBAs go for Associate roles.  We should in fact be comparing the IIMs to undergrad business schools.

  • Guest

    Completely agree with the point. It is one thing to solve the most difficult puzzle on the book and it is completely different to set up an international business cutting across boundaries. The dynamics of real world is very different. Students of IIM’s are smart no doubt about that but that is very much at an individual level. Dynamism, leadership, risk taking ability etc. these determines true sussess or failure of an organization or business as a whole  in real life and I dont think IIMs are yet there in the league.

  • Dr.J.Sarkar

    Nobody can deny these facts.And the days of  superiority of  top 7 US business schools and Insead is numbered.Their biggest drawback is their Nontransparent selection process compromising merit.Things like essay writing at home and then submitting,recommendation letters and diversity are being used for long to manipulate the selection of students for MBA class.Many rich and influential indian students could get MBA from HBS,Wharton,MIT etc inpite of average GMAT and CGPA and that many such students could not get a seat at IIMA in india shows the hollowness of these schools’ great claim.USA and most of Europe is on a downhill course in many sphere.These top US business schools must change their selection process and make it purely merit based and stop talking about intangible elements in their system.Rollingstone above has given facts and pure facts which only a fool can disagree.

  • tamal

    This are all shallow talks when one doesn’t make it to this schools and dont go by hear say ..In Insead majority dont need an internship coz they go back to their parent company or start entrepreneurial ventures and hiring 220 freshers at an Indian Salary and 136 laterals at dollar prices make a hell and heaven difference.

  • tamal

    AM you need to update your basics ..1) In CAT you can tick and apply all the IIM’s before you take the Exam so its a Pre application BUT in GMAT 90% applications are post Exam so a person who has scored 600 in GMAT will never apply to Wharton and waste his money and time .So your ratio Argument of 1:100 is just another Non sense from a naive Indian. 2) The application in US is a very serious affair unlike the IIM. The whole purpose of the exam is NOT to Test your + CBSE Mathematical skills and give undue advantage to Engineers .Its about getting the guys with Managing and Entrepreneurial skills. The B schools are NOT set up with an intention to hire Einstein or people who can represent in Maths Olympiad .And if you talk about Standard of Exam then i can tell you that Tommorow if you give Master Level Maths in CAT it will be much tougher than its today. 3) In US applying to a B SCHOOL is a very serious affair its just not tick in the CAT application form. Its also articulating an SOP within 500 Words which means sense. Then you need to get 3 Referees who will be sent secret Questionnaires to get a feedback about you in your work and academic place .So like in India Software engineers in Support or Testing projects or pure design engineers who make at Least 100 faults while copying designs and gets correction orders from clients every week and still making it to IIM’s , that will never be the case here in USA coz those Referees will reveal the truth of what’s your exact work experience has been and whether you were innovative the best among all. Coz the reference specifically asks about your innovation and how you stand different than your colleagues.4) In USA after short listing that there will be a gruelling interview round where you will face at least 1 Nobel laureate from faculty and at least 2 Global Heads of any MNC and Not merely a simple IIT Alumni who will be there to make a way for his juniors .The interview panel in US is NOT ONLY from Diverse Nationalities but with Diverse Degrees as well . 5) LASTLY I WILL TELL YOU THAT ANYONE WILL AGREE THAT IF EINSTEIN SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT PHYSICS PEOPLE WILL TAKE THINGS SERIOUSLY BUT IF A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WHICH HAS NOT WON JUST 2 NOBEL PRIZES IN LAST 25 YEARS – RATE OR REJECTS SOMEONE ITS THEIR NAIVENESS AND AGAIN PROVES THAT INDIA IS STILL A CHEAP OUTSOURCING LOCATION OF NON STRATEGICAL JOBS .

    Now coming to your Number logic- Do you know how many students take the Clerkship Exam of Government of India ? 2 Million dude and almost half of them have Masters degree and are applying for a mere clerk Jobs , but just go and check their knowledge in respective subject at international level you will see that they just know what they were taught in syllabus books another KOTA IITian in making . NONE NOT A SINGLE ONE would have ever published a a paper at international level which is very Common in US.All the students in masters at US will have at least 1 OR 2 International publication if Not more . So its the Quality and purpose that matters .. Cricket is played for 7 hours a day with 11 Players and Golf is played for just 3 hours with 1 Person But the standard and the revenue is 100 times more in Golf . Tiger wood earns in 1 Year what Sachin or Lara will earn in 10 years time. So don’t compare CAT standards . Mere checking +2 Level Maths and making life easier for engineering graduates don’t make Managers.IQ’s are definitely needed but those if + Maths check the IQ that means Tommorow if someone comes with with Masters degree level Maths knowledge that person will have more IQ ? That means a guy who has cracked IIT will have more IQ than an NIT or any other Government engineering college graduate . But then why IIT an don’t make it to the toppers in IIM or when they go to Harvard I haven’t heard any Pulmur scholar these days from when Chinese Japanese and Koreans started making it to Harvard.

    Moreover among top 108 Microsoft Top Executives ONLY 3 are Indians and among them ONLY 1 is B TECH from IIT Madras . So what intelligence are you talking about dude ?? My best friend was an Aditya Birla scholar in IIM A with a degree from an NIT Surat. But he couldn’t qualify in IIT JEE.

    There is a BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN I WAS AND I AM. And it took 50 years for the Prices and kings in India to realise that there Kingdoms are gone and India is a democratic country with an elected government .They were unable to realise that there KINGDOMS with elephant and horse cavalcades are gone 50 Years back.So we all understand coming in face with reality takes time for Any Indian

  • tamal

    yes Fully agree coz IIM A hires freshers and that is actually compared with MMS degrees for freshers all over the world coz US and European BSCHOOLS take only with 3-4 years of Work experience . Even the ISB also is rated for 1 year MBA programme accross the world . So Indians schools can never be compared in Global ranking . Moreover the Selection process is also big difference in IIM CAT coz all are Pre apps ratios of applicants is to Intake .BUT in GMAT 90% are post GMAT application so a person with 600 GMAT score will never apply to Harvard and waste his time and energy.Let me give you another example that out of 13 partners in Mckinsey in Middle East 8 are Pakistanis and 2 are Arabs all passed out from Pakistan and American University of Beirut and Cairo . So Indians please stop beating your IIT AND IIM TRUMPETS

  • dr.sarkar

    Lot of stupid people with very little knowledge are giving their views here.the top 7 us business schools, lbs,insead, iima are all top class schools.financial times is not managed by fools Like the ones I see here.one may not agree with ft ranking 100 percent but it must be correct to the extent of 90 percent.therefore nobody can call the degrees of any of these Colleges as bullshit.

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