Harvard MBAs Favor Obama Over Romney

by John A. Byrne on

President Barack Obama in the Rose Garden of the White House. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

It may be a neck-and-neck race between President Barack Obama and challenger Mitt Romney among U.S. voters, but Obama is beating Romney by a landslide when it comes to MBA students at Harvard Business School.

Two surveys by The Harbus, the MBA student newspaper at Harvard, showed yesterday (Oct. 30), that Obama had the support of 65% of the students versus 32% for HBA alumnus Romney. The remaining students said they supported a third-party candidate, were still undecided, or did not plan to vote.

An earlier poll of second-year MBA students at Harvard had also found Obama winning by a landslide over Romney (see Why Harvard MBAs Favor Obama). That survey showed that 57% of the respondents to the survey favor Obama, with only 34% in support of Romney, who graduated from Harvard with both law and business degrees in 1975.

The Harbus said the two latest surveys were completed by 668 students, more than a third of the MBA candidates on campus. An initial Harbus poll asked students who they intended to vote for and whether their vote had changed in the last month, while an expanded second poll asked those two questions as well as sex, party affiliation, and the student’s year.

“There were broad consistencies between the data collected in the two polls, the former of which was completed by 494 students, the latter by 168. The President captured 63% of the first 494 votes and 68% of the remaining 168, leaving him with 65% of the total,” the newspaper reported.

“The convincing margin of victory is explained in part by two major demographic factors the President had in his favor against one that would, on a national level, trend in favor of his opponent,” wrote Bart Clareman, co-editor of The Harbus and a Class of 2013 student.

“First, more than twice as many students at HBS identified as Democrats than did those identifying as Republicans. Of respondents to the second poll, 34% of students identified as Democrats versus 15% who identified as Republicans. 26% identified themselves as independents, 24% as international students, and the remaining 1% preferred not to say.

“Second, the president enjoyed overwhelming support among HBS’ international student body. 83% of these responders chose Obama over Romney. Approximately 24% of all respondents to the second poll were international students. Among only eligible American voters, Obama held a 45%-26% advantage over Romney.”

DON’T MISS: B-SCHOOL LEADERSHIP GURUS SAY OBAMA IS NO ‘A’ STUDENT or IF OBAMA WERE IN MY MBA CLASS

  • RightisRight

    Thankfully, it’s not up to them. Last thing we need is some bleeding socialists and daddy’s little girls to hijack our country and turn it into some socialist welfare state. Sorry, but this is not how my country was founded. This is not why my grandfather fought in Korea. This is not why my brother served in Iraq. This is not why I’m part of the reserve guard. We believe that America is founded upon the principles of liberty and freedom. We don’t demonize success or create class warfares. This is one America and no hyphenated Americans.

  • Mitt2012

    Amen Brother! Commies in brooks brother suits and promiscuous feminist atheists with coach bags and prada shoes…all influenced by Noam Chomsky from across the river. And I tell you what — a lot of those 65% of the students are international students. When you have Iranians and the French and the Russians voting for Obama, you know that he is the wrong choice for America. And note to P&Q: the hard working people of the heartland don’t care or will be influenced by what some Harvard MBAs think.

  • heyholetsgo

    Hmmm, can’t decide if these are two people trolling or if this is for real. Anyways, if you had a more international perspective you would know that Obama is NOT a socialist and a president like Romney that does not acknowledge global warming and does not apologize for people like Akin would be an embarrassment for the “greatest nation on earth.” This comes from a guy that is a registered conservative at home (a European country that is not in the toilet right now). Republicans in the house & senat are NOT conservative (they would “conserve” our nature and have fiscal responsibility and would NOT offer billions in tax cuts and military spending). The US conservative dialogue is NUTS and I am ashamed for any academic that would support such a party of anti-science trolls.

  • Doff

    I am wondering why you are part of reserve guard?

  • Doff

    these Iranian, French and Russians are helping your economy grow and pay for your freebies.

  • UNCGrad

    And you are applying to b-schools? What a judgmental and self righteous person you are! I don’t care if you support your candidate, but then you spew such disdain..why? You’re not someone I want in my class and its not because I disagree with you; it’s the way in which you present your case…there is no room for us to have a meaningful discussion. Why are you reading P&Q when you clearly seem to despise the multi-cultural and global aspects of almost every MBA program. Did you get lost trying to find Fox?

  • Eyesopen

    Don’t you see it??? the reason America is in the whole it is right now
    is thanks to very bad decisions from Bush’s administration. Freedom yes,
    equality yes. the rich oppressing the less fortunate to get ahead…
    definitely not! that’s not what America stands for.

  • DontTREADonMe

    Is it safe to assume that you meant to say..”hole” and now “whole” right? Hopefully, Hussein can send you some checks and you can enroll in a spelling class.

  • amake
  • Bob

    I’m shocked most students don’t see the destruction of Obamas policies for businesses, especially coming from an MBA program. I can say from my MBA program, if surveyed, Romney would win in a landslide.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/BLSAVRAQCN57L32HEKN4X2G7AU sakamba70

    When you are the only one seeing something it is most probably in your head. BTW, which MBA is that- “Lower pickle garden community college”?

  • http://twitter.com/NotFunnyMitt Not Funny, Mitt

    Get a freaking dictionary, will you?

    Socialism = state ownership of production.

    Just because Fox and Rush lose their little minds and shout it over and over doesn’t mean it’s actually happening.

    Obama is to the right of Nixon, Reagan and HW Bush.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=516703585 Shirley Kennedy

    You’re picking things out of the piece to suit your position. Only 24% of those polled were international students. Further,
    “Among only eligible American voters, Obama held a 45%-26% advantage
    over Romney.” Read it again: “ELIGIBLE AMERICAN VOTERS,” and the POTUS
    STILL runs away with it. A lot of us out here don’t subscribe to your
    very limited, bigoted view of the world. That can be fixed with an
    education. I am also an MBA. I am the product of an illiterate parent
    and a high school graduate parent, both of whom wanted more for their
    child than they had for themselves. I am what America is all about.
    What happened to our tolerance and open arms? I’m just as hard-working
    as anyone else (attained both my Bachelor’s and my MBA while working
    full-time), not the one-sided view you give here. Please don’t purport
    to speak for others unless you really can.

  • jrgfla

    It shouldn’t be surprising. Obama promises free money, loan forgiveness, and a no risk future. Romney would ask for repayment based on whatever loan document the student signed, expect the graduate to go to work, and to have a productive career – enabling them to pay back to the communities that supported them.

  • Thing About It

    Actually by the time your father fought in Korea he and his family had been the beneficiaries of Roosevelt-era social programs which saved the US from catastrophic unemployment and overall economic decline. In doing this, it rolled back right-wing plutocratic practices that trashed the middle class, workers, and the poor in favor of profit for a tiny minority of wealthy individuals. The social programs that Roosevelt ushered in arguably saved this country from a populist revolution, which is were it was headed during the depression. Because a capitalist government invests more in social programs does not mean that it has become socialist or communist. Those terms need to be backed by data because their meaning is very specific. You are using them more as slogans and slogans, of course are substitutes for actual thinking.

    And while you asked the question rhetorically, there is the matter of “why” your father fought in Korea and why your brother fought in Iraq–not so much their personal motivations but the definition of our national self-interest in each case. The Korean War was fought primarily as a result of the US reversing its defense policy of maintaining its Pacific Interests as far as Hawaii, the Philippines, and Japan. We had publicly announced that we would withdraw from the Asian mainland and had begun to do so. When the US reversed this decision, North Korean troops had already begun to occupy South Korea. That is what happened at the tactical level and on a broader strategic level it was a conflict between two empires, the American and Soviet empire. They were underpinned by different ideologies and economic systems but they were effectively the consolidated centers of power derived from the the great multi-ethnic empires that had collapsed during the First and Second World War.

    As for Iraq while some of the details behind that war are complex and obscure, the overall reason is clear to all but a few naive romantics: this was an imperial move to secure oil resources. It had nothing to do with September 11th other than that September 11th was a convenient motivator for the uninformed American public. Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden were sworn enemies who never collaborated with each other and even Dick Cheney publicly admitted that the events of September 11th were not caused in any way by Iraq.

    And of course there is the flawed use of the term class warfare. In America there is only one class that is waging any kind of war against the others and that is the ultra wealthy that recognizes a challenging opponent in the middle class and has waged a highly successful campaign since 1980 to destroy it. Mitt Romney represents that class (as he clearly indicated in his private “47%” speech) and will continue, efforts to destroy the middle class.

    I know that being ignorant and hiding behind slogans without actually analyzing them is comfortable. The German people preferred to do this after the war as well. While that kind of moral and intellectual laziness provides initial comfort it also makes you an accomplice in your own destruction by political forces that enjoy making you ignorant and marginalizing you.

  • jgb523

    Curious to know the following:
    1) How many of these students went directly to grad school and never worked full time jobs (i.e. PAID TAXES!!!) prior to entering grad school
    2) How many were born to or raised in a financially priveledged home (i.e. family income over $350k so top 1%, or have family millions $)
    3) How many have trust funds

  • JohnAByrne

    Virtually all the MBA students at Harvard have work experience. Generally, you can’t get into the school without having worked full-time for two years after getting your undergraduate degree.

  • IamSam

    Well, considering that he skipped out on the draft and has shipped his money offshore, I kind of doubt he would expect graduates to “pay back to the communities that supported them.”

  • justthinking

    The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me and it is so blatant that I have to ask myself from time to time, a lot lately – Am I drinking the cool-aid? Have you ever heard the saying
    what you are running from you are actually running to? Isn’t it equally as racist to vote for a
    black man because he is black – oh yeah Obama isn’t even black, he is a hybrid. And the idea that Romney is the genesis or responsible or will be responsible for some sort of class warfare based on what – his success? Liberals are wealthy too – right, maybe it’s all inherited money and they don’t earn a dime, but they still have as much wealth on the left as they do on the right. Give me a break! Romney’s not even in office and already the blame game has started. Those Harvard snobs should be ashamed of themselves – all the money that
    is being wasted on their education and they can’t even think critically, it’s
    sickening. Let’s break it down to a very simple level, if Obama had taken over any company four years ago, even if the results were waning for that company when he came on board (oh by the way – Bush didn’t ask for 9/11 either, who should he be pointing the finger to?
    Clinton for gutting our intelligence? – Just checking). And in the four years that Obama ran our said company, he ran it into the ground; didn’t have a budget, couldn’t afford to
    keep quality employees, 5 times more debt, brought the company to the verge of
    bankruptcy and was arrogant and aloof with his shareholders about his poor results and pointing the finger and not taking any responsibility, whining about no one getting along – couldn’t get anyone to agree with his vision, those darn whomevers that stood in his way. Are you kidding me? He would be out on his ass – probably wouldn’t even take four years. And is not the United States of American bigger than any company one provides leadership
    for. This is an easy one folks, make all the excuses you want, analyze and psycho analyze – look at history and personalities – point the finger, play the blame game, but it seems really
    clear in my humble opinion. And no company that I have ever worked for would let that type of leadership continue. The guy is a community organizer, has never demonstrated the ability to deal with the complexity or breadth of issues that face the American people and we have evidence of that today, why is that so difficult to understand and accept. And all you feel good, highly educated individuals who appear to have such elite viewpoints, knowledge and grasp of history and current events are messing with my freedoms and quality of life because you liiiike someone – we have outcomes today in every facet of our lives. Maybe on campus at Harvard it is not as apparent what the state of the union is – real life out here in the real world. Who was it that said if you are young and not a liberal you have not heart. If you’re old and not a conservative you have no brain.

  • SustainAmerica

    DontTREAD
    Is it safe to assume that you meant to say “not” and not “now”, right? It looks like you are the one who needs a spelling class.

  • mojo39

    Just goes to show Harvard students aren’t as smart as they think they are. They think Obama is likable. So what. They can’t see how phony he is or that he is a narcissist and doesn’t care one iota for this country or the people. I’m surprised they haven’t seen through his lies either. What on earth are they teaching them at Harvard?

  • mojo39

    can’t spell “hole?” What are you a Harvard grad? Typical…Obamaite…blame Bush for everything. REMEMBER BENGHAZI?

  • JDMBA33

    You are very passionate about what you believe in and I appreciate that. Having said that, I think you are quite dismissive of the arguments on the other side. Many would argue that running America is not like running a company. In a company, you are more concerned with efficiency and profits. In a country – things like fairness and equality matter. You may dismiss those as periphery issues, but for those in this country that are still fighting for basic equality – it matters how the president thinks about their role in society. Romney was quite dismissive of 47% of the American population, most of whom were African-Americans and Latinos. How can someone like that bring us together and create a more perfect union? You are looking at this issue from purely a company — profit and loss — type of equation. I don’t blame you for that outlook, but I’m just saying that not everyone looks at it that way. There are many for whom healthcare is a major concern. What does Romney want to do about that other than repeal the affordable care act? Unfortunately, FDR or Lincoln is not running in this election. We have a choice between Obama and Romney. It’s not a perfect situation, as Obama has not quite lived up to his promises regardless of the hand he has dealt. But I don’t have any confidence in Romney to come in and fix the economy. First of all, we have no idea what he really believes in. He has changed his position of important issues many many times. So, that does not inspire any confidence in me that Romney is ready to be president. I refrain from political posts because most of the time it’s pointless and ends up being a shouting match. I have no intention to change your mind or to call anyone names. There are lots of good people who have come to their beliefs sincerely and believe in their candidate. I hope my response has been respectful. I hope you would show the same deference and respect towards others.

  • Arjun

    P&Q getting hijacked by politics. There are some really disturbing posts here critical of international students and immigrants. I never expected to see this on P&Q. As someone who would love to go to the US and study, these posts are quite discouraging. I wonder how many people feel that way, given that mostly highly educated and well qualified and influential people are posting on these forums.

  • Madarain

    What can be learned from this story and the responses below? 1) The pervasive affects of more than a generation an anti-american, anti-capitalist teaching in our public and private k-12 schools has not been limited merely to the thinking (feeling) of those pursuing careers in social work. 2) Today many can’t distinguish between potential and actual accomplishment. These are the opinions of students whose major accomplishments so far has been getting into the MBA program…many will never accomplish anything more that this, still others could never even vote in a presidential election, most will not have stellar careers…(see Obama’s Nobel prize for a perfect example of this played out in real life) 3) An education doesn’t make you smart. In fact, it proves what I was made aware of years ago. It’s possible to be educated beyond your intelligence.

  • http://twitter.com/SassafrasMBA Sassafras

    It’s an unfortunate fact that education cannot completely scrub away ignorance and bigotry. I want to assure you that the vast majority of educated people would be equally appalled by some of the comments here.

    I agree with you that it’s downright ludicrous and disgusting to deride a survey because international students share in these beliefs. I for one am more proud of our country knowing that Obama helps bring us international respect. I don’t know when we entered a world where the French, Iranians, and Russians are extremists and enemies of the US.

  • justthinking

    Fairness – like that provided to our elected officials – you know the folks that represent you and me in our congressional system – the time to properly vet something as huge and life changing as Obama Care? Equality – in how our government treats employers that may not want to hire ONLY union employees? Its rubbish and those words are just words. And what is truly sad to me is that these
    policies are about control, not fairness, not equality. Fairness and equality are the disguise the code words that resonate with the weak in spirit. Look at the actions and the outcomes. I like the debate, because I truly cannot understand how anyone could support Obama on principal. And you have yet to share anything specific or tangible, only a hope and feeelings. Truly, we don’t have any idea what Obama really believes in.

  • http://twitter.com/SassafrasMBA Sassafras

    You do realize that everyone in the US pays taxes, right? Taxes include things like road tolls, sales tax, gasoline and cigarette surcharges, property taxes, etc.

  • Madarain

    Not smart, not at all. and yet you are accidentally right thru no fault of your own. Obama isn’t a “socialist”. He is definitely NOT a capitalist either (except for the Crony aspect because he gives untold advantage to his supporters thru the distribution of our capital)

    What he is, is a STATIST. A thing far worse than a mere socialist. STATISM…(the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic,political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty.)

    He is also an unrepentant LIAR, (a person who has lied or lies repeatedly) and like most of his followers sees no problem with lying to get what he wants. (see Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Harry Reid for more information on liars)

    Sadly, he is not COMPETENT (having suitable or sufficient skill, knowledge, experience,etc., for some purpose; properly qualified:) which makes him a poor choice for president

    He’s also an IMPOSTOR (impostor or imposter, a person who practices deception under an assumed character,identity, or name.).

    Some would say a CHARLATAN, (a person who pretends or claims to have more knowledge or skill than he or she possesses; quack.)

    All of which makes you, because of your support for him, a MORON (Informal. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.)

  • http://twitter.com/appwerkx David Beadle

    And you “Madarain” are an IDIOT: mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.

  • Dan

    Agree with you! It’s scary to read some of these comments especially on website like P&Q. I think it reflects badly on us. Is it any surprise to see this given that one candidate has openly called countries like Russia our biggest enemy? Scary. President O has been a steady and calm leader.

  • Madarain

    David, That is hilarious. Ironically your own response is a perfect fit for “idiotic”. By your own definition, your response is exactly the self-defeating and significantly counter-productive effort you describe. It establishes that you are indeed mentally deficient.

    It’s self-defeating because instead of addressing a single point I made, all you did was draw negative attention to your own shortcomings. And it’s counter productive because instead of making me look dumber, it’s made you look like an…forgive me for this…an idiot.

    It’s truly rare to see someone so succinctly describe their own offering, but you have managed to chime in with a perfect description of your own comment. If it weren’t completely unintentional I’d say it was genius, but sadly it’s clear that is not the case.

    For your next response, I’l bet you will continue down the path you’re on, insulting me rather than debating that Obama is an incompetent, Statist liar, and charlatan/impostor, because even you are smart enough to know that’s true.

  • JohnJ

    Your tag should not include thinking as a part of it. The lies that you believe did not come from you. To state one: Clinton for gutting our intelligence? – by almost every account, Clinton was practically obsessed with anti-terrorist measures, which Bush let fall in a very careless and perhaps deliberate manner. You are a brainwashed person, and a lot of money has been spent to do that to you. Only a person heavily swayed by a certain type of directed thinking (and yes, your masters are thinking) could come to the conclusions you come to. Independent thinking would never get you there.

  • JohnJ

    The short answer: Yes, you are definitely drinking the Kool-Aid. But I just saw you misquote at the bottom: the quote is if you are young and not a communist you have no heart and if you are old and still a communist you have no brain. Conservative and liberal were not mentioned. As for the intelligence of being conservative: conservatism as practiced is the promotion of a small group of connected people against the average person. There has never been a right-wing government that was good for people – ever. Try to name one.There also has never been a liberal government that went too far and adopted state socialism – what we call communism. Excepting Soviet imposition on Eastern Europe, state socialism has only come about as a response to very repressive right-wing regimes.

  • JohnJ

    Hi again, justdrinkingthekoolaid. About your last sentence:

    Truly, we don’t have any idea what Obama really believes in.

    Amen to that. Barry is a corporatist hack who lies by pretending to support the people, unlike the corporatist hack Mitt who sells Kool-AId to the true believers.

    And Obama care: total sell-out to the insurance companies. What a darn commie!

  • Reggie

    It’ll
    be a cold day in hell before any Romneybot troll will come up with
    anything beyond what you describe. They don’t care, they won’t read your
    post, that’s the point. Reason, contemplation, stepping out of one’s
    own shoes… all is entirely antithetical to this type of existence. It
    is almost like we are having a national encounter session: one side just
    doesn’t want to be an adult and live in reality and screams and kicks
    until they get their way. Will Obama’s re-election change any of this?
    Of course not. Get ready for more hysterical Al Jolson cartoon like
    idiocy and NRA “grab all the ammo” freak outs (even though Obama has
    been very good to the NRA). They don’t care, they just don’t care. There
    are psychological studies that show how conservatives are limited to
    the fear centers of their brains. This makes sense, yet it makes sense
    only to those who care to inquire about why. These people do not care.
    They probably never will, they like to get their fear spoon-fed by an
    all to complicit media (not just the Fox clowns) that love a story with
    such “emotion”.

    Part
    of me is saddened by such a state of mind, while part of me loves to
    see these freaks freak out when the world overrules their hyperbolic
    delusions of grandeur. Ultimately, however, because I am a liberal and a
    progressive, I have compassion and send them a little prayer, maybe
    translated into whatever fundamentalist language they will listen to, so
    they may have liberation from suffering.

  • Dan

    If 47% of the population is reliably Republican,
    which in this day and age pretty much means they are one of (racists,
    bigots, ignoramus, the one percenters, selfish megalomaniacs,
    ill-informed, misinformed, gullibles, red-necks, religiious fanatics, or
    gun nuts). I have very little respect for any of them.

  • Joe C

    Republicans bet on Americans being dumb, ignorant and bigoted. They thrive on that. They have no compassion or social justice. They are kept in business because the electorate is DUMB and cannot think critically.

  • JDMBA33

    In the words of Elizabeth Warren:

    There is nobody in this country who got rich on
    their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there – good for you. But I
    want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us
    paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were
    safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the
    rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would
    come and seize everything at your factory… Now look. You built a
    factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea – God
    bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is
    you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes
    along.”

  • JDMBA33

    A message to all those liberty and freedom and “I built that” gut totting nuts:

    “There is nobody in this country who got rich on
    their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there – good for you. But I
    want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us
    paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were
    safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the
    rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would
    come and seize everything at your factory… Now look. You built a
    factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea – God
    bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is
    you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes
    along.” (Elizabeth Warren)

  • JohnJ

    Thanks for your reply, Reggie. I want to say it is not only fear. I have a good friend that was raised in a conservative family, and then voted for McGovern against Nixon but somewhere along the line he decided to be conservative again. Following up that decision, he has ended up swallowing the whole bullshit. In my friend’s case it is not fear, but a pose that he will seemingly never abandon. Other than his politics, he is a fine and compassionate person.

  • Cornelius

    “Among only eligible American voters, Obama held a 45%-26% advantage over Romney.”

    So 29% chose neither Obama nor Romney. This is a positive sign for the future of America. The population at large doesn’t come anywhere close 29% choosing a third party candidate or choosing none of the above.

  • PatriotsFan

    Both parties spent nearly 8 billion dollars on this election (counting down ballot races). Is that the best use of money? The two party monopoly has hurt the public and the amount of money spent is outrageous. There isn’t a big difference between them..either way there will be gridlock and nothing will get done. We have a broken system. I cast my ballot for Dr. Jill Stein, in part in protest over the way things have been handled. Obama isn’t even a liberal, he is more of a moderate republican. We don’t know what Romney really is. No one wins on Tuesday. We the people lose.

  • http://twitter.com/appwerkx David Beadle

    Boy your ego is extremely fragile isn’t it? lol

  • Busdriver

    Didn’t Barry take over auto production and drastically reduce oil production on government land? Guess that fits your description. QED

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1089254494 Doug Rowland

    I really love how the left gets so nasty when someone disagrees with them. The so called “tolerant” left is just a parody of itself.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1089254494 Doug Rowland

    You are quoting someone who lies about her own heritage to gain favorable access to schools, jobs and now politics? Get someone who is more credible. We all built the roads and we all use the roads. Nobody is arguing to eliminate taxes lefty! The wealthy already pays it’s “Fair Share” of taxes. And, the right gives more to charity much more than the left. Your ideal of compassion is to take from one to give to another. (As long as it’s not you that is being taken from)
    You want to pay it forward…Is it better unleash the American economy to create opportunity or regulate it so that nobody succeeds? Do you want to to pay it forward by allowing small businesses succeed so they can provide people with good jobs? Which by the way, adds to the tax base. Which by the way, compounds into more jobs and more success and MORE TAXES. Or had you rather “tax the rich” to the point that business owners consolidate and quits expanding and shrinks the available jobs consequently reduces the tax base. Do you think paying it forward is to foster opportunity to provide themselves the American dream? Or, do you think paying it forward is to merely hand out money so that they may simply exist? Do you think paying it forward is to balance the budget so that future generations aren’t saddled with federal debt? Or, had you rather spend spend so recklessly that today’s children will have to pay back $50,000 per person when they enter the workforce? The American left may not technically be socialists, but they are close. One only has to look at the quasi-socialistic policies of Greece,Spain or France to see how well that system works at “Paying it forward”.

  • FEDUP AMERICAN WITH THE BS

    It astounds me the level of obfuscation involved in these kinds of remarks. Further amazing is the constant attacks back n forth from both sides labeling and accusing each other of the very things EACH sides does! The unfortunate part is the conversation doesn’t move forward on the basis of FACTUAL EVIDENCE and sound principal reasoning but rather immature ad hominem attacks.

    American politics and is other foreign political systems are filled with representative not from the class of those for whom one is “supposed” to represent and for whom one is “supposed” to have a VESTED interest (common ordinary working citizens). In fact politics is comprised largely of those representing the “minority in control” (wealthy citizens who traditionally are land owners or modern versions business owners or large scale investors). So for either side of the aisle to make wildly false claims of anti-Americanism, Christianityism, Libertayrism and every other cheap sound bite ism used is laughable at best when compared to the actual public accounts of said representatives.

    For every Democrat guilty of using language to knowingly to be false or at best misrepresent the actual truth or fact for the purpose of gaining electoral votes, edge or advantage… one can ALSO find same as a Republican. One only has to recall in recent history COUNTLESS examples of the public embarrassment and shame of BOTH sides when caught. So how could it possibly be that supporter of either sides ignore these simple factual truths about one’s OWN party and make claim against the other party? Absolutely bizarre and mind numbing in an attempt to make logical sense of it.

    The irony is all the while, this country and many countries are facing serious economic, environmental, cultural and societal issue that must be HONESTLY addressed in order to begin to find reasonable resolutions based on FACTS! In America…the poor is being crush….FACT. The middle class is deteriorating at job lose…wage/income reduction….health benefit elimination….sub-par education…FACT. Meanwhile, the wealthy and powerful are doing beyond well…their overall standard of means has been improving compared to the rest of the American citizens….FACT. Yet the very people who are directly and indirectly affected by the decisions, deals, choices, “compromises” made in legislators supposedly on the behalf of those for whom they represent…arguing that “the other side” is to blame…meanwhile “my side” is trying to get things done “correctly” is UNBELIEVABLE!

    So let’s take a look at just one issues facing this country…JOBS. Supposed conservatives…listen closely. I know you can’t face it to believe or understand that GOVERNMENT didn’t close or shutdown plants to ship them overseas to LOWER WAGE MARKETS! Business owners…largely REPUBLICAN…made a DECISION to NOT pay you X$ per hour when they could pay far less than X$ per hour to someone else overseas…another words…why should I pay you..Ohio, Indiana, Wva, Mich, Mn, Al, Ga, Sc, Nc, Cali, Ny, Pa…worker fair livable wages in American terms…when I can pay Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Southeast Asian, etc FAR LESS without the requirements of adequate and safe working conditions….health benefits….environmental standards and practices? Government had SQUAT to do with that! FACT…not conspiracy…FACT! By the way…this didn’t just begin happening…it had been happening since the early 70′s! This happens to coincide with Republican president sending government official to China and other places on behalf of “Business” to discuss “possible American business expansion into new markets”….again FACT! Those companies then and now…weren’t facing issuing of profitability….they were facing issues of MORE profits! Despite this EVIDENCE OF FACT…you continue to argue on their behalf, despite it being against your OWN best interest? I’m blown away at that kind of self denial.

    Liberals, I know you think you have done wonderful things in the advancement and causes of the same groups of Americans…but DEMOCRATS also have been guilty of the same thing! Let’s take a look at NAFTA….”Open trade in North American will SAVE US JOBS”! HUH? One just has to take a look at the regions all along the Mexican-US borders pre-NAFTA and post NAFTA to see the immediate impact that decision made. Whole towns of manufacturing propped up offering Mexicans jobs that used to be in American for CHEAPER LABOR COST! Republicans lobbied for it for over 3 yrs and DEMOCRATS supported it and signed into law by DEMOCRATIC president! Who cares about the behind the scene political games played to get it done…if your commitment is truly for the middle class working American….you DON’T MAKE THE DEAL!

    In conclusion…yes I realize I have condensed rather complex political issues into a simplistic discussion…its not a dissertation its a blog…but the points are factual valid. We ALL have more in common than we do in differences…we have allowed those who use politics and politicians to drive imaginary wedges between Americans. Who doesn’t want Americans back to work? Who doesn’t want American companies kicking ass around the world with superior products and services? Who doesn’t want to have to pay anymore than NECESSARY in fees and taxes to support this country? Who doesn’t want fair opportunities to compete? Who doesn’t want a job that pays a LIVABLE WAGE…or a FAIR market rate? Who doesn’t want an efficient government that still provides a superior service to its citizens? These and many more questions like these can be better solved if we collective join forces and hold BOTH side accountable for the mess BOTH sides have created over the past 40years! Fighting each other like school kids does not move us ALL forward to where we ALL reasonably agree America should and needs to be! My hope in responding is to generate REASONABLE, INTELLIGENT, FACTUAL, LOGICAL discussions about this. If you are incapable or unwilling to engage in meaningful discussions…so be it. Have it with yourself, but the problems still remain and “your guy/party” IS RESPONSIBLE for part of the mess!

  • http://twitter.com/FinancierGuru Financier Guru

    Harvard = the BS yard. No, thank you.

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