Good & Bad News In Duke’s Hiring Stats

by John A. Byrne on

Duke University's Fuqua School of Business is ranked tenth among the best U.S. B-schools by Poets&Quants.

Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business

First, the good news. Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business said that this year’s graduates saw their average starting salaries climb 2.5% to nearly $115,000, up about $3,000 over the Class of 2012. Average signing bonuses also rose to more than $29,000, up from an average $27,000 last year.

As for the bad news, Fuqua’s preliminary employment report showed that the percentage of graduates who had job offers by May 12 fell to 79% for the Class of 2013, down from 87% last year.

MBA hiring by such well-known companies as Apple, Google, Goldman Sachs, IBM, Medtronic, Samsung, Johnson & Johnson, and Credit Suisse was significantly down from Fuqua’s final employment numbers of a year ago. McKinsey, which hired a record 18 last year from Fuqua, brought aboard only seven MBAs this year. Just two Fuqua grads reported back to the school on landing jobs with J&J after a dozen did so last year. Google hired only one Fuqua grad despite having five summer interns last year (see Fuqua MBA hiring over the years).

The school emphasized that its numbers are preliminary and Fuqua expects them to improve into the low 80s when more graduates report back to the school. The decline in grads with job offers was attributed to visa challenges for international students and the fact that more MBAs decided to pursue their own searches for jobs rather than rely on campus recruiting.

Duke’s stats come on the heels of a recent study by the Graduate Management Admission Council which found that Class of 2013 students who acquired a job had to work slightly harder to obtain an offer than last year’s class. Overall, job seekers in the Class of 2013 submitted a median number of 10 resumes and went on three job interviews for a return of two job offers, compared with job seekers in the class of 2012, who submitted a median number of three resumes and went on two job interviews to secure two job offers.

For the third consecutive year, Deloitte remained the top employer of Duke MBAs, hiring 26 graduates. Deloitte also employed 18 summer interns from Fuqua for a total number of 44 hires in the 2012-2013 academic year.

Other consulting firms hiring multiple graduates include Accenture (11), Bain (10), McKinsey (7), Boston Consulting Group (6), PricewaterhouseCoopers (5), A.T. Kearney (5), ZS Associates (3), Booz & Co. (2), and LEK Consulting (2). Nearly a third of the graduating class this year (32%) accepted offers to work in the consulting business. Six of the top 10 employers of graduates this year are consulting firms.

The school’s overall strength in placing its MBAs in consulting made less visible a shift in hiring to a broader range of firms. McKinsey’s drop in hiring to only seven students from 18 was not entirely unexpected because only 9 students did internships at McKinsey last summer. McKinsey uses the internship as a pre-hiring screening tool. In the previous year, 16 Fuqua students were summer interns at McKinsey, setting the stage for the record 18 hires last year.

HIRING BY BOSTON CONSULTING GROUP LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT IT WAS A YEAR AGO

Boston Consulting Group, which hired 13 Fuqua grads last year, hired only six this year. The same was true of ZS Associates which hired six Fuqua MBAs last year but three from the Class of 2013. Even Deloitte, the number one recruiter at Fuqua, hired four fewer MBAs from the school than it did in 2012. Whether this is an early sign of a cutback in MBA hiring by top consulting firms or unique to Fuqua is yet to be seen.

Consulting firms have been steadily increasing their hiring of top ranked MBAs in recent years as investment banks and financial service firms have trimmed their employment rolls and scaled back from recruiting heavy numbers of new employees. The big consulting companies also tend to pay among the highest starting salaries for freshly minted MBA talent.

The preliminary employment numbers from Duke, one of the first of the top business schools to release employment data for the Class of 2013,  are just further evidence of the trend. Unlike many other schools, Fuqua offers far greater detail about the companies hiring both its graduating MBA class and its summer MBA interns. Not surprisingly, the stats also show both the breadth and depth of the school’s success in the MBA job market. Fuqua grads continue to land jobs in an exceptionally wide variety of industries and companies.

(See following page for table of all the major employers and their hires for the past four years)

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  • Pernard

    The report just confirmed the decline of the financial sector for MBAs. Now onward, it is the consulting path. interesting to compare Mckinsey hires of 7! with 108 at INSEAD, the sole leader school for consulting :)

  • HBSorDie

    Insead is a joke. It’s so easy to get into.

  • Pernard

    so is HBS 😉

  • HateMBA

    mba itself is a joke

  • McK

    Fuqua is doing a great job of keeping its students and alumni happy. I see no reason why it can’t begin to start rivaling Booth, Kellogg and CBS in a few years time. In my experience, I’ve noticed that Fuqua grads are also more gregarious and amicable than many of their contemporaries.

  • ChiTown354

    How significant is the drop from 87% to 79%? Also, what will most likely be the 3-month graduation number?

  • Playto

    McK lowering numbers is a big big big deal. That’s the mark of quality. 18 to 7 ..wow..that’s a huge huge huge huge drop. 60% drop in McK hiring — that’s likely going to cost Fuqua a two or 3 spots in the overall rankings, maybe more.

  • Ranger

    These #’s aren’t final…not everyone at Fuqua has reported to the Career Management Center, so I’d wait until the school reports final numbers.

  • Ranger

    These #’s aren’t final…not everyone at Fuqua has reported to the Career Management Center, so I’d wait until the school reports final numbers.

  • NotPlayto

    Are you sure the 18 wasn’t both intern + full-time hires? With that in mind, the delta may only be 18 to 16, as noted above…perhaps you got your facts crossed?.

  • MBA’er

    Guess you got rejected lol.

  • JohnAByrne

    Last year McKinsey hired 18 full-time MBAs from Fuqua and nine summer interns for total hires of 27. This year McKinsey hired seven full-time MBAs and nine summer interns for total hires of 16.

  • ChiTown354

    When will we see the final numbers? These numbers don’t look spectacular at all. When I visited Duke, the students were very optimistic about their career prospects. This report is quite devastating IMO. Only 79% of the people were able to find jobs???? 1 out 5 is unemployed!!! Duke was one of my top choices along with Kellogg and Tuck. Now I’m having serious send thoughts given these appalling numbers out of the career services.

  • BrianSoutham

    Not just McK, BCG hiring is down as well. Just dispiriting and absolutely crushing for a program that many consider to be on the up and among the elite programs.

    Now…let’s wait and see what the numbers at the other schools look like.

  • YouSuckCalmDownMoFo

    You are an idiot.The people in bschool that couldn’t find jobs are really the mistakes who shouldn’t have gotten in. Confident people who are talented don’t worry because they know they will find a job. This goes for all schools including HBS. Duke is fine and all decent Bschools have a 80% employed at graduation rate anyways.

  • JohnAByrne

    The school is still waiting to hear from about 90 grads. The final numbers usually hit in September-October.

  • mikeavelo

    Why so much fanfare about these figures? Is not a surprise, Fuqua is a great school, and has had top companies recruiting there, like any other top 12 school. However I don’t see P&Q posting similar numbers for other b-shools that are doing equal or better job in terms of placement. I found this article biased.

  • JohnAByrne

    No other top business school has reported placement numbers for this year. As noted in the article, Duke’s Fuqua School is the first out of the gate. That’s why the results are interesting. They are probably a harbinger of things to come at other schools.

  • LDP

    given that many of my c/o 2012 classmates who started at M/B/B had so much beach time, it is not surprising that consulting is cutting back on hiring.

  • ChiTownIsInsane

    Devastating? haha you’re insane.

  • Alice

    McKinsey has reduced hiring across the board. That can be the only explanation.

  • McK

    McK and BCG will hire less fewer employees this year.

  • Georges

    at INSEAD, Mckinsey alone will hire over 150 this year, BCG over 70, Bain over 50. Main and simple reason, they hire for international offices for which ONLY INSEAD graduates take the lead. It is a fact of the global economy situation and its shift. multinational corporations look for people with global mind and aware of other cultures. so far, only INSEAD can offer such caliber. The latest career report showed this trend, decline in financial sector, boom in consulting and corporate leadership programs in the emerging areas. INSEAD won the race in MBA making.

  • INSEADnotHBS

    look at their latest employment report and compare it with the miserable M7 schools, then you will understand which is the joke! from an insider info, the application number this year at INSEAD jumped dramatically, particularly for asia campus. They expanding the campus there to host double number of students!

  • FrenchBUTnotArrogant

    NO, they reduced the hiring at US schools, look at INSEAD and see they double their intake.

  • DumbBUTsmart

    They do this to attract the good applicants for their early round :)

  • Sheryle Dirks

    Hi everyone, I lead Fuqua’s Career Management Center and am happy to answer questions about John’s article and our data. Ranger is right that the numbers aren’t final and the data only reflects students who self-report that they’ve received or accepted an offer. Prelim stats always under-report the actual number employed and we’ll report again in the early fall on measures at graduation and three months post-grad.

    What you’re seeing here is very consistent with what we’re hearing from other schools, which represents a highly fragmented and segmented market. The top players still take the lion’s share of any class but student interests are highly diverse. Many students forego offers or opt out of campus recruiting for more specific interests that don’t hire early or on campus. For example, a Duke MBA turned down an offer from a premier i-bank to seek post-graduation for a private equity job and he landed a PE role in July.

    It’s not uncommon for the employment % at graduation to decrease when perceptions of the economy are positive, as student confidence to land a highly desired opportunity is higher than in leaner times.

  • Sharma

    Thank you Sheryle for the clarification. with respect to the overall recruiting, do you see any major shift, or new trend, geographically, functionally, or in industry?

  • Cristina

    Sheryle,

    Thanks for the update and Fuqua’s detailed employment report with breakdown. As an international applicant, I may have a serious question about employment opportunities for international students at Fuqua. John’s article indicates that one reason for lower employment figure is that internationals have not found jobs yet due to visa challenges. What measure does the Career Management Center take to help internationals? I notice that most jobs are US based, this would be a catch 22 for internationals.

  • Sheryle Dirks

    Hi Sharma, that’s a great question. I would say there are a number of shifts taking place but it’s probably too soon to say how significant or long-lasting they will be. There’s growing interest in:
    –Opportunities in financial services beyond I-banking such as asset management and private wealth
    –Technology industries (we just hosted an employer event for 20+ tech employers on campus last week)
    –Industries that typically don’t hire on campus like renewable energy, social impact (non-profit, government, and others), sports, media, and entertainment
    –Start-ups and smaller companies
    –Opportunities outside the US

    “Traditional” industries like health and consumer products are still very popular but even the range of firms within those spaces is wider now than in the recent past. For example, a brand-focused student may be just as interested in an internship at Kashi or Sabra as Procter & Gamble or Unilever. Hope that helps.

  • Sheryle Dirks

    Hi Cristina, this a great question and a complex one. The visa issues for international students are the same at all business schools, as employers will have the same work authorization requirements at all schools where they recruit. We are already working with our first-year international students – even before orientation! – and have special programs, resources, and events throughout the year.

    What John is referring to is that an international student doing a job search in his/her home country may choose to move there rather than trying to do a long-distance search and therefore postponing their search for a short time while relocating. This is also true for someone seeking a position in a very specific US location.

    For those wanting to be in the US, we are hopeful that proposed changes in US immigration laws will positively affect the MBA job market for our F-1 visa students.

  • Sharma

    Sheryle,

    Thank you for your swift response. Plz, I’v two points:

    – “Opportunities outside the US” is interesting, as long as I know, you have a campus in Kunshan in China, how much the students would benefit from this campus from career prospective. Does it open doors for jobs in Asia? or it is too early for that?

    – I believe you disclose the grades, do you see any correlation between say, GPA and quality of the jobs? or gpa with salary? How do you find this policy’s impact on the job hunts?

    Kind regards, Sharma (an international mba applicant)

  • Orange1

    Everyone involved with the schools from 8-18 pumps them as the next best thing out there. Relax people. The schools in that pack wax and wane with their stats from year to year. Nothing to get excited about. Duke is an excellent school like the others. So if top consulting firms don’t hire as many graduates the world ended? No reason to go there? It’s slipping? The teachers became less motivated? The students entered with GMATS two points lower? Oh, the horror!

  • JohnAByrne

    Orange is absolutely right. These preliminary numbers are important but they need to be discounted by a number of factors: 1) They ARE preliminary, 2) The numbers reflect student interest in these jobs as much as recruiter interest in the students, 3) They are also a natural outgrowth of the previous summer’s internship numbers, and 4) Overall, as the article points out, the diversity of world-class companies recruiting MBAs at Duke on a regular basis is truly impressive.

  • GB232

    Kudos to the school for putting such a detailed report out there. And for all the folks who are obsessed with McK and BCG — they are just 2 among many superb employers who recruit MBAs at the top programs.

    When schools are totally transparent — people jump on the stats and hyperbole rules the world. It’s madness. I look the numbers as quite impressive…especially considering many would still be pursuing opportunities in the immediate months following graduation.

  • JohnAByrne

    I totally agree. I applaud Duke’s transparency and wish other business schools would follow its lead, especially Harvard, which provides fairly skimpy information on who recruits its students every year, and Stanford, Wharton and Columbia, in particular.

  • mikeavelo

    Yes, understand Fuqua is the first to release those figures, but I don’t get why P&Q is making much buzz around it. Of the last 6 or 7 P&Q posts, this article is half of them. There might be changes more attributable to the job landscape, so having a comparison with the other b-schools would be more accurate. I sense certain preference to “advertise” Fuqua.

  • foolsparadise

    Duke is foolish for reporting its stats before the other schools. That way, general trends may appear to be specific to the institution. I wouldn’t be surprised if McK and BCG recruited fewer students across the board, but Fuqua’s early release of statistics is making it look like the companies are hiring fewer students from Fuqua.

  • joker

    What’s up with the INSEAD idiots spamming P&Q? They’re probably just insecure because they were rejected by all the american B-schools.

  • sami

    Harvard also released the preliminary figures, and they are away better than Fuqua.

  • ShanghaiFFR

    What you mean by Grade disclose?? all the top schools do not tell the GPA and grades.

  • Simon

    You said it “Idiots”. I met many insead students, fair to say idiots and less competitive than top 50 US schools.

  • JohnAByrne

    Harvard never discloses the actual number of MBAs hired by specific companies. Its employment report isn’t nearly as transparent as Duke’s disclosures. So if McKinsey and Google hired significantly fewer HBS grads, we would never know because Harvard doesn’t tell.

  • BC919

    I was accepted at Fuqua last year but decided to join another school instead. While the school came across as great, I was warned by friends, current students, and alumni about the lack of support offered by career services at Fuqua. One of my acquaintances told me about an incident where she had written about 6-7 e-mails to her career coach and did not hear back even once. She was really distraught as she was struggling with recruiting and could get no support. I did not want to end up in her shoes.

  • ButWhatDoRacistRoss

    I want to see how a racist school such as Michigan Ross where the WASP students try and block the international students (Indian/Asian/etc) from obtaining MBB jobs because they have funny accents, numbers look like. I bet MBB will stop recruiting there and up the numbers at Fuqua who do not have racist students who choose to only talk to attractive and articulate Bschool cool WASP.

    If you are considering Ross or schools ranked in its tier and are not a skinny, tall, attractive, wealthy, and a white male or female, do not go there because those students will try and destroy your career to hold spaces for their “white” friends. It’s one thing to do nothing, but I’ve heard stories of them helping a “white” cohort waitlisted for an offer by pumping his candidacy and destroying the reputation of two international students who were listed above in the company offer waiting list. Those same people pretend to care about those international students who didn’t get an offer after they sabotaged him. It’s pure evil and back stabbing that secretly goes on under the covers at Ross that the admin pretends doesn’t exist and turns a blind eye to.

  • Reality

    If you’ve read MBAApply or Ask Alex’s blog thought on racism in Bschool, you should always know that white male is always the “Gold Standard”. It’s sad how many white, Caucasian males who already have an inherent advantage use it to maintain the status quo. As a minority, many of them believe that they are successful purely on hard work but fail to see the institutional advantages they have. A recent UC Berkeley study shows (link 2) how many whites fall into the fallacy of being their own abilities when their advantage is rigged in their favor in society through defacto means. What’s an example of this, all races growing up in America see the white male as the attractive standard. I can’t count the number of attractive Asian or Indian or hispanic females who feel entitled and only date tall white males. Many of them have a look of disgust when it comes to the thought of dating a man of their own race as if their fathers, uncles, or brothers are deserving of female such as themselves. Their is subconscious thought they are upgrading when they date a white male. What does this have to do with B-school? If you are minority / international student, if you want certain jobs, it’s best to make friends with these people and display your non-ethnic side because that perception is often used against you in court of opinion in terms of “fit”. It’s not that you aren’t smart but rather you need to mimic the mannerism of whites in order to be successful.

    link – www DOT mbaapply DOT com/advice2.htm#raceprestigeadmissions

    link 2 – newscenter DOT berkeley DOT edu/2012/02/27/greed/

  • coconut

    this year’s statistics at ross are a disaster! just wait..

  • RealisticsMAN

    Thats perceptions are not true. I see indians dominate the IT industry and quantitative finance to the extent they created the perception of indians are always smart and hard work. similar apply to german. in contrary, many consider white people as good in look but miserable in smartness, needless to mention the perception of a “stupidness” of the white women. so do not generalize, companies do recruit the best who can serve them well regardless the races. BUT, races or more accurately “politics” do appear when it comes to very top positions and leadership roles. If you look for senior leadership role then you should play in your ground (your original country, original land, with your original people to whom you really belong). We aren’t living in a plato city, wake up.

  • TT

    He was talking about business and senior leadership which has and still is white male dominated. Indians and Asians are seen as number cruncher not leaders. I’m guessing you’re white. Minorities live and see this reality everyday.

  • ItsaWhiteWorld

    Race, prestige and admissions: what is the elephant in the room?

    Consider this:

    You walk into a college classroom where most of the faces are Indian and Chinese (or “South Asian” and “East Asian” for the more broad term – and in this context, it’s not really a question of citizenship i.e. Indian-American vs Indian but of race).

    If you were a recruiter for Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Apple or any global company, would you perceive this school to be MORE or LESS prestigious? If you were a recruiter where post-MBA jobs are managerial and become more relationship-based (not analytical/technical), and where the key contacts your company corresponds with (investors, Board members, clients, customers, government officials) are mostly white (American or European), or at least a sprinkling of various nationalities and cultures (but still mostly white), would you be more willing to hire students from this classroom, or would you be more inclined to recruit from a similar caliber of school where there were more white faces in the class?

    Now, if you were an applicant and walked into this very same classroom, would you perceive this school to be more prestigious or have an “exclusive” brand compared to a class that is more diverse (or where at least half were white)? As an applicant, would your opinions be different depending on your own race or nationality (which gets into the ugly truth that even in non-white countries, the perception of prestige and exclusivity is still defined by whether white people will buy it). And if b-school classrooms looked more like MS-Engineering programs (where the overwhelming majority are Indian/Chinese), would that increase or decrease the likelihood of you applying to a highly selective business school? (Note that “highly selective” and “prestigious” can be related but are not synonymous.)

    And herein lies the ugly truth of race, prestige and admissions.

    For business schools, and especially those in the very top tier like Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, and so forth – a big part of ensuring that their MBA programs stay relevant is to maintain their perceived prestige (exclusivity), because as we all know – while having an MBA can be of value, it’s not necessary for success in business, as amply shown by countless examples of incredibly successful entrepreneurs and executives out there without any formal business education. The perception of exclusivity for b-schools is rooted in the assumption that blue chip white males/females are the people others (regardless of background) want to be associated with. And that feeds on itself – the more of these people who apply, the more it will attract others to apply (including Asians), which creates a “network” which b-schools will then trumpet as something invaluable to its students (who are then networking with each other).

    That’s why b-school admissions is more like the selection process for a private club: a country club, the freemasons, a hot nightclub (bring in all the hot girls, groups of guys are left standing in line), motorcycle club, or any sort of private organization. They can admit and reject whomever they want, and constantly change the parameters for admission to suit their needs (which isn’t to graduate the “best and brightest” but to maintain that perception of prestige). Business school admissions is NOT a meritocracy, and it never really was, since the admissions process by nature is subjective and a “black box” if there ever was one.

    When it comes to race and admissions, it’s not about trying to marginalize white or Asian applicants in the name of diversity – that seems to be a common refrain from many detractors who feel that adcoms are on some socialist, pinko, leftist agenda to admit as many “blacks, Hispanics and lesbian paraplegics” (of course, all mentioned in a derogatory tone by these very detractors) into b-school over more qualified white and Asian candidates –which is simply not the case because that is not what recruiters want, and it’s not what will ensure that applicants see these b-schools as “prestigious” (which will ensure that these schools continue to receive a crapload of applications each year).

    In short, top MBA programs want their schools to be *diverse* (read: mostly or at least half white) rather than *ethnic* (read: mostly non-white) – that helps to ensure perceived prestige and exclusivity in our current culture of how we view the relationship between race and status symbols, which then helps to attract the maximum number of applicants as well as the most “exclusive” (read: highest paying) corporate recruiters. That is partly why they also are looking at younger candidates: it’s a way of reaching into the blue chip American pool (white kids with Ivy/equivalent backgrounds) to ensure that their numbers don’t drop off to the point where b-school has to start looking like an MS-Engineering program – the less white people in the applicant pool, the more “ethnic” they have to go. This is ugly to say, but it’s what is bubbling underneath all of this.

    The one big silver lining to all this is that how we perceive race changes over time – it’s not static, but fluid. Even now, for many b-schools, the incoming classes are no longer overwhelmingly white, but again, the schools are “diverse” and not “ethnic”.

    One example of how perceptions changed is that of the Jewish community – from “ethnic” to “mainstream.” Ivy League schools in the post-WWII era had a reputation for an unspoken two tiered admissions standard as a way to stem the influx of Jewish students for the very same reason: the perception of prestige. Many of these Jewish kids had as strong if not stronger credentials than their white counterparts to the Ivy League’s law and medical schools (b-schools back then were a bit of a backwater), but would still be underrepresented in these classrooms relative to the applicant pool. And yet, within a generation, that bias (at least when it comes to university admissions) has all but disappeared by the early 1980s.

    With race and prestige today, I am confident it will change as the economic and cultural input of non-Western communities is considered mainstream, but this is where we’re at right now. So who knows, maybe in 10-15 years time, these biases may disappear altogether at least in this context of university admissions.

  • RealisticMAN

    I’m not a white, but really really wonder why (particularly indians” do complain with the fact that they are the engine of the US IT industry. Why do not they do this amazing inventions and entrepreneurship ideas in INDIA?! because US offer opportunities?! NO, but because they obsessed with the idea of inferiority. Why the hell do not they make bangalore or mumbai is the center of the e economy??! just wonder..

  • RealisticMAN

    I see this shift just happening, when you navigate through many indian mba websites, you see many applicants in dilemma to choose very top US or european schools or top indian schools, I see many turn down Wharton or even harvard for IIMA or ISB. in fact, it widely said in india that if combine IIT with IIM is far better than if combine MIT with HBS, for jobs in INDIA.

  • Don’t_Jump_to_conclusions

    It’s a general trend. It has nothing to do with Fuqua in particular.

  • moron

    I know people at every single b-school (without exception) who hate their career coaches. That must mean that all the b-schools in the world are worthless right? Don’t be the moron that relies on hearsay to disseminate false information about a particular school.

  • RacismIsAliveandWell

    “It’s not just the Right that does this. ‘Cause I’ve known a lot of elite, Northeast establishment Liberals that may not use this as a business model, but deep down, when they look at a guy like me, they look at a … they see a guy automatically who belongs in the second tier and not the top tier … White folks usually don’t see it, but we do, those of us who are minorities … Here, I’ll give you my example, it’s this, ‘You know what, I don’t want you anchoring anymore. I really don’t see you as an anchor, I see you more as a reporter. I see you more as a John Quinones’ You know, the guy on ABC. Thats what he told me, he told me he saw me as John Quinones. Now, did he not realize that he was telling me, ‘when i see you i think of Hispanic reporters?’ ‘Cause in his mind, I can’t be an anchor, an anchor’s what you give the high profile white guys.”

    — Indians and Asians are number crunchers, the consulting associates, the modelers at banks who do the grunt work, the true leadership jobs go to HIGH PROFILE WHITE MEN.

  • Simone

    general trend within US schools, INSEAD is different, it shows better results.

  • HPatel

    Hi Sherlye,

    As an international student, I’ve researched that schools such as Michigan Ross has students who can be racist and unwelcoming to international students such as myself and say things like “he only got in because of his 770 GMAT”.

    How does Fuqua prevent this from happening and what punishment do you give to students who mistreat other students at your school?

    Harsh

  • Insead=shit

    You insead guys are real nut jobs. Who would have thought that attending a school with a 30% acceptance rate could have such a profound effect on a person’s psyche? INSEAD has lower GMAT averages than Cornell. Forget about HBS and Stanford.

  • haha

    Are you insane? The average pay of Harvard grads fell dramatically this year. Fuqua’s average is now only $5,000 short of Harvard’s.

  • Farion

    The average salaries become more and more close than ever among ALL the top 30 schools! Look at Olin or Texas Austin, they are just similar to those of M7!

  • perovianKKL

    so what wrong with being idiot?!

  • FLM879

    IIMA has an average GMAT of 770! It is not about GMAT boy! it is about other things you need to grow up to understand it. Look at INSEAD career statistics to realize how far is it from all the american high schools, I mean bull schools!

  • BC919

    Check your facts, Mr. Hater! I didn’t say the school was worthless. I said that I thought the schools was great. I chose not to join Fuqua because of experiences of current students who were open and honest about sharing them and I give them full points for that. I am sharing an experience on this forum which I know to be true. Are you considering this information false simply on the pretext that you don’t agree with it? If so, I understand your position.

  • Sheryle Dirks

    Hi Harsh, This is a tough question to answer in an online discussion forum, but how diverse we are and how inclusive we are within that diversity are fundamental assets in Fuqua’s culture.

    For example, during the Global Institute, which is a four-week experiential course to begin the program, community and culture are core building blocks, where students from diverse backgrounds are put together on problem-solving teams. Another example is that our student government has an executive cabinet position addressing diversity and inclusion issues from the student perspective.

    If problems occur, Fuqua’s Honor Code and Community Standard would be leveraged to address potential violations. I’m happy to put you in touch with someone in our Daytime Programs Office to learn more if that would be helpful.

  • Sheryle Dirks

    Sharma, we do indeed believe that the DKU campus in China will help raise brand awareness and ultimately job opportunities in Asia. Since we have not yet launched any programs there, it’s a bit soon to say for sure, although that is clearly the goal.

    To address your other question, no, I do not see any correlation between quality of job and GPA, especially since “quality” is so unique and specific to the individual. Especially in this rapidly changing, complex, global economy, companies do indeed need smart people but in that sense, smart is a concept that entails far more than just grades or test scores.

  • Sheryle Dirks

    BC919, I’m sorry to hear that you heard this advice from others and that it influenced your decision to attend another school. We heard this feedback as well and last year, we added significant resources to the Career Management Center and restructured the department to improve support levels and responsiveness to Daytime MBA students.

    For any current/prospective students reading this thread, please don’t rely on email as a primary communication channel to your school’s career center or your mechanism for evaluating the value they can add. It’s like getting medical advice from a doctor by email. Just like doctors spend their time behind closed doors with patients, career coaches see students individually and in groups throughout the day then often attend recruiting events with them at night. As a coach, it’s also difficult to know if the information you’re getting in the student email – often sent by phone while multitasking – provides the complete context necessary to provide thoughtful advice.

    Whatever school you decided to attend, BC919, I hope you are pleased with your choice.

  • KA

    Rival Kellogg??? You Fuqua kids sure do live in your own world. Last year Kellogg placed 55 students at McKinsey and 43 at BCG. This year Fuqua placed 7 at McKinsey and 6 at BCG. That is terrible!!! Our numbers this year will be similar to last year’s. Fuqua is not even close to rivaling Kellogg let alone Booth or CBS. With these numbers, you are closer to the UNC/Emory/UT Austin level than you are to the M7. Fuqua is on the decline.

  • William B.

    really bud? don’t hurt yourself with those big predictions.

  • IhateINSEAD2much

    What is the hell with INSEAD students, fans, staff, or whoever??!!! the topic is about salaries and Duke!! It is NOT about RANKING or COMPARISON!! why on earth would INSEAD people bother shouting here and there???!!! jesus Christ my FHG..thats really bad and pathetic..

  • RossIstheNewRacism

    Rossism – is the new term for the subvert racism that goes on at Michigan. It’s when the white kids in marketing or banking see a minority sign up for interview prep and they merely go through the motions of “helping” that person know he or is she won’t ever get a job at P&G or top banking because they can’t rage like a 23 frat boy or sorority slut. It’s funny how they will not respond to your email if your name is Zhao or Singh but if it was good ol’ Johnny they will go out of their way to only prep you, but make sure the recruiter and all other employees at firm X have a favorable view of you because you fit the “mold” aka you’re white.

  • 2014Applicant

    Well, appears “Ross is Racist” guy is back. Hope you enjoyed your summer vacation. We look forward to you cluttering the comments section of P&Q with your nonsensical attacks on Michigan.

  • GERF3445

    however, he/she have a valid point. not only in this website, in another forums, there were discussions about Ross and Racism.

  • Fuquan ’14

    Harsh, as an international at Fuqua, I found that some industries are “better” to internationals than others. For example, just about all consulting companies hire internationals without any issue. That said, some more niche/smaller MBA recruiting industries (e.g. Energy, non-profit) may have more stringent work authorization requirements.
    In my case, I’m an international student who recruited for consulting and had no issues getting on closed interview lists with top firms, resulting in multiple offers.
    Good luck.

  • FutureStudent

    Don’t rely on anonymous posters with an agenda for your insight into b-schools. Go visit the schools unannounced to see what they are really like.

    “Ross is Racist” guy is a Fuqua student who is trying to disparage Ross to elevate Fuqua. I haven’t even started my applications yet,
    but I already discount anything he says.

    My visit to Ross was amazing and I noticed a lot of mixing between all the students. It’s funny because this article had nothing to do with Ross but this guy just started posting to deflect attention away from the fact that Fuqua just got knocked down to tier 4 in MBB recruiting. McKinsey hiring at Fuqua is down from 18 to 7 this year and BCG is down from 13 to 6. Yikes! Ross is Racist guy must be pissed that his school performed so poorly and now he has to continue to spew slander because Fuqua will lose recruits to Ross based on the employment stats.

  • Anonymous

    There is no evidence showing that this Ross-hater attends Fuqua or any top-tier school, for that matter.

  • FutureStudent

    Well of course, this is an anonymous forum. But if you look back at comments he has made in the past you can figure out that his comments are pro-fuqua and anti-ross. You can then deduce that he is a Fuqua student with the motivations I described above.

  • James300

    Sir, I assume most (if not all) the readers of this specialized website are all professionals and highly qualified people to the degree they really differentiate between naive posts and serious ones. We all know Duke, Fuqua, Michigan Ann Arbor, Ross, and all the schools very well. Ross is a great school and definitely a top tier (tier 1) institution, but so is Fuqua. In fact, in recent years Fuqua had the lead in many rankings. Also, do not forget that Duke is highly regarded private institution and has the prestige that Ross lacks. other than those very soft factors, all of them are great and top notch programs.

  • FutureStudent

    James, I agree with everything you said except maybe you are not giving Michigan’s undergraduate school enough credit. Regardless, I agree that both Fuqua and Ross are top-tier schools and I don’t disparage Fuqua.

    There have been anit-ross comments made from (using my judgement) one bad apple of the Fuqua community. This is not something I can prove since this is an anonymous forum but something I have deduced after reading dozens and dozens of his posts over the last 6-8 months. I was highlighting that people should not take anonymous posters with an agenda seriously but rather visit the schools to get a true sense of what the community is like. That goes for both Ross and Fuqua.

    I was also pointing out that one of the main focuses of the article was that Fuqua has had an unprecedented decline in their MBB recruiting this year. 18 to 7 at McKinsey and 13 to 6 at BCG are significant drops especially when a lot of applicants are interested in the top-tier consulting firms and choosing business schools based on the likelihood of placing at MBB.

  • consultant2

    if someone interested in consulting, then without doubt go for the #1 consulting school INSEAD. in this year’s alone, mckinsey hired 146, 84 are new hire not returning. bcg something around 100..

  • theKomodo

    Let’s not jump into any conclusion – Assuming what you’re saying is true, it could be due to economic trends in the US vs non-US, not McK’s overall recruitment preference in terms of schools.

  • Not A White Guy

    INSEAD also takes far greater amounts of students who don’t speak English as a first language. Just sayin’.

  • C458Ferrari

    of course it is due to the economics situation! It is MASTER of Business, all about business and economy. and in that sense, this year insead experiencing a massive jump in the number of applications, many admission consultants believe that the admission rate will be less than 10%, it was somewhat between 15 to 18% before, but due to the stability in INSEAD recruiting and the ability of its graduates to work anywhere, lost of top recruiters do attend both campuses. and very interestingly, insead graduates did quite well in US market!!

  • Tuck

    Just before we start, I am a Tuckie.

    One visit where Ross controls what you see and do is representative of the community. I will say that I have friends who weren’t too fond of their Ross experience. The comments on racism isn’t that far off according to them. I also have friends who loved it but they were also white while the negatives came from those who were not. It’s not an “n” of 30 but 3-4 Ross minorities who echo those sentiments is pretty solid in my book.

  • ThePrestige

    Michigan like Berkeley, UVA and UNC are public schools and therefore will never be as good or as prestigious as Ivy league or equivalent schools such as Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc.

    In fact, all public schools are crap and only for poor people.

  • 2014Applicant

    Really? Posting inflammatory comments just to get a rise out of the

    commentariat of P&Q? I certainly hope you are not at any of the private schools you mention. You are a horrible representation of the student population at these schools.

  • ThomasWerle

    I am glad Ross is racist. I am a white male who is against affirmative action and all useless liberal social programs.We need to stop preferential treatment to all the brown, yellow, black, etc people. They had minority programs to get them into top undergrads with lower stats. This is Business School and the preferential treatment needs to stop.

  • theKomodo

    Those are most probably at non-US McKinsey and BCG offices.

  • YellowMAN

    giving how you blown up your economy, your boss most likely will be a yellow in shanghai.

  • James300

    he/she is absolutely right. The evidence is quite clear, look at the us news ranking, to see that how the private schools are always on the top.

  • consultant2

    Yes, thats true. but this what makes insead very stable school, in fact, by attending INSEAD you hedge your career better than all the other schools. and when you make an exchange with Wharton, or Kellogg, you in reality have the absolute advantage on opening all doors inside and outside US.

  • MBAisworthless

    Wonder why does the MBA still alive?!!!!

  • BarrackObama

    Data don’t lie nigga. Me went to columbia and hharrrrvud

  • KKKsatRoss

    Go to Fuqua or UNC or Darden or any school but Ross. Indian students do not mix with white kids unless they are born here and are the ones who hate Indians to make themselves look good to be part of the “white” club.

  • JohnAByrne

    Interesting comment here from someone who calls himself Vlad81:

    The drop in the employment has nothing to do with the state of the economy or individual hiring practices of the consulting companies. Fuqua Career Management Center is the problem. Unfortunately for Steve and other CMC veterans, they are no longer relevant, as Fuqua needs aggressive salesmen rather than passive career consultants. The students need more job leads, which means more companies hiring on campus and way more companies hiring internationals. The students need someone to pick up the phone and call up actual companies, convincing them to open more opportunities for Fuquans. Just giving the same career advice over and over again is not helpful. One truly effective coach, I was able to find in the whole CMC is Malcom, as he’s doing exactly what I describe, creates opportunities by putting students in touch with companies.
    The sooner the school let the veterans go, the better it will be for the whole student body. Hopefully, this article will serve as a strong evidence that changes in the Career Management Center are well overdue, and creating sectors with a bunch of directors is not helpful at all.

  • truthorsomethingbeautiful

    Politics, Rampant Corruption and Lack of Law and Order (including property rights).

  • ThomasWerleIsntThinking

    If your mom and sister attended top undergrads, they were likely products of some affirmative action as well. It isn’t just a color thing. Not that that matters to you, as you probably don’t think you’ve ever received any opportunities as a result of some “preferential treatment”…

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