2014 U.S. News’ MBA Ranking

by John A. Byrne on

US_News_Grad_2014_3_12_13VANDERBILT, NOTRE DAME & MICHIGAN TOP 25 WINNERS

Among the top 25 business schools, the most significant ranking improvements were scored by Vanderbilt University’s Owen School of Business, which jumped five places, to finish in a tie for 25th place with the University of Washington’s Foster School. Notre Dame University’s Mendoza School also rose four places to climb into the top 25 by placing 23rd from 27th a year ago.  The University of Michigan’s Ross School of Business, which decreased its incoming class size by 47 students to 455 so it could improve its admission stats, gained three places to earn a two-way tie with the University of Virginia’s Darden School at 11th.

Ross, for example, was able to bring its acceptance rate down to 33.7%, from an unusually high 40.6% a year earlier. The school’s admit rate ballooned as a result of a decision to end co-signer loans for international students in the middle of its admissions cycle. Ross expected the decision to cause a greater number of international admits to turn down their acceptances so it accepted a greater percentage of prospective students to offset a decline in yield—the percentage of accepted applicants who enroll at a school. Ross also managed a slight one point increase in its average GMAT score to 704.

For every school that went up in the rankings, there was at least another that lost ground. Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business slipped three places to finish 14th, Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management dropped two places to a rank of sixth, and UCLA’s Anderson School also declined two spots to place 16th (see Winners & Losers In The 2014 U.S. News MBA Ranking).

Just how tightly clustered many schools are can be seen by the number of MBA programs that are tied with others for the same rank. In the Top 50, some 32 out of the 50 schools have the exact same rank of at least one other school. A half dozen schools are tied for 27th place: Arizona State, Brigham Young, Georgia Tech, Ohio State, Southern California, and Wisconsin. Even worse, eight different schools are tied for a rank of 65th.

HOW U.S. NEWS RANKS FULL-TIME MBA PROGRAMS

As is typical of most rankings, the biggest tumbles and gains occur further down the list where very slim and often statistically meaningless separations among the schools exist. The University of Minnesota’s Carlson School plunged 10 places to a rank of 33, even though its underlying index score fell by only a single point to 68 from 69 a year ago. The business school at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champagn jumped 12 places to finish 35th from 47th in 2013, while Temple University’s Fox School in Philadelphia climbed ten spots to rank 48.

Like all rankings of business schools, the U.S. News list often engenders much controversy and debate. But it is among the most influential and most followed of several prominent rankings. The magazine only ranks U.S.-based schools, unlike BusinessWeek, The Financial Times, or The Economist which publish global rankings, either combined or separate.  (One other note: As a marketing ploy, U.S. News claims this is a 2015 ranking to give it greater shelf life. It is based on 2013 data and released in 2014 which is why we label it a 2014 ranking.)

U.S. News’ methodology takes into account a wealth of proprietary and school-supplied data to crank out its annual ranking of the best business schools. The magazine does its own survey of B-school deans and MBA directors (25% of the score). This year, U.S. News said about 42% of those surveyed responded, but it did not reveal how many deans were actually surveyed or how many replied.  It also does its own survey of corporate recruiters (accounting for 15% of the overall ranking and for which 18% of those surveyed responded), starting salaries and bonuses (14%), employment rates at and three months after graduation (7% to 14%, respectively), student GMATs and GREs scores (about 16%), undergrad GPAs (about 8%), and the percentage of applicants who are accepted to a school (a little over 1%). This is the second year U.S. News included GRE scores in its ranking methodology.

This year U.S. News assigned numerical ranks to 104 schools, ending the list with No. 104 North Arizona University’s Franke College of Business in Flagstaff.

(See following pages for complete ranking and year-over-year changes)

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  • HBS Student

    Why does it say UPENN’s ranking in 2013 was 1? Good damage control on their part from all the heat they’ve been getting.

  • Jason

    Anything for a headline… US News is the most accurate of the rankings, but Wharton on the same level as GSB/HBS is a little hard to take at face value.

    Those are incredibly well timed improvement of stats for Wharton though. Maybe all the admissions/placement staff needed was a bunch of media outlets trashing their brand to light a fire under them.

  • Laughable

    I don’t think I have ever heard of a single person (not affiliated with Wharton) put Wharton on the same level as HBS and GSB. This is laughable. Their acceptance rate, yeild, and turnover of admission’s staff are not consonant with the stats of a number one school in the country. Teirs: 1. HBS/GSB; 2. Wharton/Booth; 3. Kellogg/MIT; 4. Haas/Columbia/Dartmouth

  • We’re All Winners

    Let’s just make everyone in the top 10 #1.

  • HokuLA

    Wharton is in the same league with HBS and Stanford and Chicago. and in finance it is the best by far. like it or not, accept it or not..thats the truth.

  • James F

    Chicago isn’t in the same league as HBS and Stanford and Wharton.

  • James Hollingsworth

    Michigan cheated by reducing the incoming class size to only try to improve its ranking

  • James F

    That’s what needs to happen with Fuqua as well.

  • James F

    No one is really going to believe that Ross is better than Fuqua and Yale.

  • lol

    You mean they “cheated” like Haas and Yale, which have been keeping their class sizes the lowest of all top schools and have been focusing on inflating their GMAT stats? I guess what these schools have been doing for years has nothing to do with rankings whatsoever. Yeah, decreasing class size is definitely cheating, and striving to admit students with good stats is cheating too, I guess. By that logic, anything a school does to improve the average quality of its class can be labeled cheating – i.e., the whole admissions process.

  • rak

    i would put MIT on tier 2 and higher than booth. their intl reputation is far better

  • Laughable

    You must be a Wharton grad.

  • James F

    I can assure you that I’m not. HSW are in a different league from Booth.

  • James F

    There are drawbacks to doing that. They receive fewer tuition dollars, and a smaller network isn’t a good thing.

  • Bob Marley

    MIT is lower than Chicago in ALL rankings (US and worldwide). If you think otherwise that’s your opinion and I respect that, but the majority of people do not agree.

  • Bob Marley

    Kudos to Wharton, the BIG surprise. Although I don’t know if this speaks highly of Wharton or poorly of US News’ ranking methodology. It certainly seems odd that Wharton advanced in this one ranking while it’s been declining in all others (FT, Econ, BW, Forbes).

  • Milton

    Personally
    I strongly believe that the methodologies vary extremely among different
    rankings. Not new, correct? Let me briefly share my opinions on the recent
    ranking. I believe that the differences among the top 20 programs is quite
    small in absolute terms. That said, top schools (meaning the top 20 ranked in
    the latest ranking from US News) seem to be consistently appearing within their
    own clusters. Such clusters can, in my opinion, be distinguished by a range of 5
    schools at a time. In other words: GSB,
    HBS, Wharton, Booth and Kellogg have been battling in their own group and if
    one checks its historical rankings they have been consistent. The same logic is
    to be applied to the following 3 (5 members) clusters going down the list and
    ending with the 20th. I would
    strongly differ with the view that a school can change ranking + or – 5 positions
    in a single year and this logic is supported by the broader consistency of the
    before mentioned group of 20 programs. Rankings, in my modest opinion, need
    time to build credibility just like university need a long lasting reputation for
    them to be considered exclusive. Business schools have been around arguably for
    the past 120 years and it is inevitable that long lasting institutions tend to
    do a good job in providing a world class MBA. The need for top universities to
    specialize in business studies has been a primary one since their own
    establishment and therefore the level of specialization stems from very far
    back. The graduate experience of an MBA today
    is a much broader life changing event that
    encompasses many aspects that can strongly differ by business school
    philosophy. The learning experience can be somewhat different if a potential
    candidate doesn’t resonate with the specific program offered by the school. Among
    each school there are different programs and these may differ very much amongst
    each other; just consider amongst different schools. I personally believe that
    Poets & Quants does an excellent job in ranking schools and I strongly
    believe that its ranking is among the best in the market and to be
    considered a benchmark in the decision
    making process of a potential student. At last I would like to think that it is
    the individual with its own determination and interests that can make the
    difference between with his/her future endeavors!

  • Laughable

    You’re missing my point. No one picks Wharton over Harvard or Stanford. No one. Wharton is trying so hard to ride their wave, but they’re in the next tier.

  • Laughable

    Just to add, look at Wharton’s acceptance rate. You’re telling me that a school that accepts a fifth of its students is just as desired as a school that accepts less than 7% (with a yield about 20% higher)??? Get real.

  • ConsiderTheFollowing

    I think the biggest debate about the US News rankings is that for some odd reason it is the most relied upon on yet the logic for the rankings is very easy to manipulate. 24% of a school’s ranking is determined by GMAT scores and undergraduate GPA. I’ m not saying certain schools intentionally did this, but it is surprising to see certain schools who took a bit of a reputation hit this past year suddenly admit classes with higher than normal GMAT and GPAs. I think we can all agree that GMAT and GPA are important components but not 24% of a ranking important. I think the US News should revise the logic since the ranking of an MBA school in my opinion should be determined by what it does for its students. GMATs and GPAs are metrics that are already determined before anyone even steps on campus and have little impact on what a school does for its students. The ranking essentially is telling schools that your ranking will suffer for every student you take in who has marginal GMAT no matter what experience they bring. Sorry if I sound like I’m on a soap box, but I just think that the rankings should not discourage schools from taking chances on students who can make an impact at their respective schools despite a marginal GMAT or GPA, Again, it’s not that I think that GMAT or GPA is not important, it is to ensure prospective students can handle the curriculum. It’s whether it 24% is an appropriate metric.

  • history

    I think the historic top 5 is HBS,Stanford, Wharton,MIT,Kellogg… the emergence or Booth (rankings wise) has really only taken place in the past 10ish years.

  • Milton

    I agree and Sloan had a huge upside considering the caliber of MIT….

  • Big_Recruiter

    Business school, it is Harvard, Vocational school, it is stanford, Finance school it is Wharton, Economics school, it is Chicago, marketing school, it is Kellogg. The others are just derivatives of those schools: Tuck is derivative of Harvard, MIT Sloan is derivative of Stanford, Columbia from Wharton, and so on… irrespective of rankings, this is the picture in most of recruiters minds and generally it is true.

  • Its_history

    you said it, it is history..

  • Nincompoop

    People who argue about rankings are juvenile! They got too much time to think about unimportant stuff!!!!

  • AS

    I don’t know man…are most recruiters that shallow? I mean wouldn’t they look at your experiences? Sounds fake to me.

  • Matt

    This is a very back-handed kudos, haha.

  • Matt

    “The ranking essentially is telling schools that your ranking will suffer for every student you take in who has marginal GMAT no matter what experience they bring. Sorry if I sound like I’m on a soap box, but I just think that the rankings should not discourage schools from taking chances on students who can make an impact at their respective schools despite a marginal GMAT or GPA.”

    Great point, and very well stated.

  • Big_recruiter

    This is when it comes to MBA recruiting, in general. but, yes, you are absolutely right about experience as the most important factor.

  • GFDER

    It is however quite interesting because Wharton is known as not collaborating with ranking publication and do not disclose the admission data.

  • Matt

    Yea I think a lot of people would agree that Tiers are the best way to think about rankings. I go to UNC and I always pay attention to how we ranked against Texas, Carnegie Mellon, and Emory.

  • AS

    Thanks for the the response. I think people just love all kinds of rankings, and the school ranking is one of them. I think any top 10 school would be a good platform :)

  • RealAssetsFTW

    This argument breaks out every time any of the rankings are updated. Why doesn’t everyone just agree to disagree…

  • Anon

    That is totally incorrect. MBA recruiting is run by Alums from that school from each respective firm. You have an equal shot an each major company by going to any major Top Tier school.

  • FERER

    better than Duke, it is hard, BUT yale is way below Ross.

  • McCombs16

    Yup. I am heading to McCombs this fall and am paying attention to how UNC, UCLA, Tepper (ranked similarly), and to a lesser degree Ross and Darden (what I think McCombs should set their sights on) fare in the rankings.

    I think number rankings are a bit unnecessary (I think tiers are better), but as long as applicants pay attention to it (directly affecting who chooses my program and the quality of my class) and recruiters pay attention to it (directly affecting by job prospects), it will remain important to me and is grounds for a moderately enthusiastic fist-pump.

  • Anthony

    University of Rochester | Simon Business School & Rice University | Jones should be
    ranked in the 25-30 range. Infinity better then Arizona state, Georgia tech, Ohio state who are ranked higher.These rankings don’t make sense. John your opinion?

  • devils0508

    I wonder if Duke will start caring about GMATs more, or if they’ll just accept a worse rank. The job placement, average starting salary, recruiter rank, alumni rankings, etc are all top 10 for Duke, but they get absolutely killed by the low GMAT/GPA average.

  • DevilBlue

    I hope not to be honest. I am going to Duke this fall and there is a vibe and energy there that I did not see at many other schools. Duke not only values experience, but values individuals who WANT to go to Duke. If you tell Duke that their ranking will suffer for taking a kid with a 680 who applied EA and bleeds Duke blue over a kid who applies round 3 with a 730 because he got rejected by their top choices, Duke will say “so be it”. Regardless, I think all of the schools, Duke especially, are confident enough in their track record and reputation to shape their MBA program the way they think is best.

  • devils0508

    But that’s the thing, reputation is linked to ranking, which is linked to who applies. If they continue to fall in the rankings, recruiting will dry up and students will stop deciding to attend. They need to fix their GMAT/GPA stats if they want to keep their level of recruiting/starting salaries. They don’t need to be as driven by GMATs as Yale/Wharton, but they need to increase the weights a bit in their admissions process.

  • nachman58

    What do you guys think are the chances that Michigan’s Ross cracks the top 10 next year? The school has always been very highly rated by recruiters, and job placement and salary statistics looked very strong for the Class of 2013. It’s also got one of the largest and most passionate alumni networks out of any school, and now the the underlying admissions statistics looking like they could be catching up to its reputation, especially if it brings in a strong class of 2016.

  • Matt

    I also really appreciate the fact that Duke doesn’t seem to be hung up on GMAT scores and GPAs which, in all reality, are probably not very strong indicators of a successful future career (and thus a positive representation of the school).

    Remember that rankings are not the ONLY indicator of reputation. Also remember that US News apparently puts more weight into GMAT and GPA than the other major rankings. And finally notice that Duke is ranked much higher in other publications.

    I think it would be great to see them continue to be trailblazers in sort of shunning those metrics, but I can also see the downsides mentioned by devils0508. It’s a slippery slope, but it really is excellent to see a school breaking the mold..

  • someone

    Agreed. +1

  • DevilBlue

    I agree that there needs to be a happy medium and I think you will see a bit more emphasis on that for this year’s and next year’s applicants. Duke should not lose their DNA but at the same time, they have to play the game. It’s sad that the US News Rankings can have such an influence on the admissions operations of a school but ultimately, we are the ones who continue to feed into this because of our constant need for rankings and reliance on US News.

  • random

    Recruiting will not dry up and students will not pick other schools if a school goes up or down 2-3 spots in the ranking. BS.

  • random

    A high chance if they keep cutting the class size to increase GMAT / GPA.

  • Bob Marley

    You are incorrect. Check 30 years ago…

  • However

    ranking is irrelevant in some schools such as Duke, just an example, look at Columbia which is clearly in decline from ranking pointview, however their selectivity, yield rates, placements, all these metrics are consistent and it is still top tier school.

  • devils0508

    Don’t mistake short-term for long-term.

  • AIG_Quant

    This ranking absolutely shows how crappy US News methodology is. By gaming the system Ross was able to steal Fuqua’s spot. Also there is NO way Wharton is #1 along with H/S. Sorry US News but you really blew it this year.

  • Dutch Ducre

    Laughable’s ranking is pretty laughable

  • Dutch Ducre

    this is absolutely true

  • Dutch Ducre

    yea, and guess what, noone cares about Kellogg or their frosted flakes. Kellogg is not relevant at all, hasn’t been for 20 years

  • Steve

    If Cornell was situated in a better city (large metropolitan city or at least a city with better weather), it would easily crack near the top 10. It suffers from location which impacts its ranking on this methodology

  • Ben

    It’s HBS and Stanford then everyone else. The fact that US News ignores this highly evident dynamic, renders their rankings illegitimate. Ask any MBA consultant or any top MBA applicant and it’s clear that Wharton is now becoming a “safety school” for those who are not admitted to HBS/GSB. I’m not demeaning Wharton, it’s a great program, but it’s not the ultra-elite programs that are HBS and GSB.

  • JohnAByrne

    Good catch. Fixed. Sorry about that one. I was up at 2:30 a.m. knocking this out.

  • nachman58

    I dunno…neither Tuck, nor Ross, nor UVA are located in large cities (Ann Arbor is a really far edge suburb of Detroit – which isn’t exactly the most sought after city these days), and Hanover and Ann Arbor have equally dreadful weather as Ithaca does. Furthermore, Cornell’s dreary location and weather certainly doesn’t seem to impact its undergraduate ranking. I think it’s lower simply due to less elite recruiting placement than some of its peers as well as slightly lower GPA/GMAT profiles.

  • Steve

    Charlottesville and Ann Arbor are more preferred places to live than Ithaca. Undergrad Cornell suffers as well (I went to Cornell undergrad so I know). Between cross admits, people may opt to go to other schools because they don’t want to live in Ithaca. Ann Arbor and Charlottesville are known as fun cities for young people, but not Ithaca.

    If Cornell was located in Manhattan which would increase app volume like NYU or in some other large city, it would play a big factor in this ranking. But maybe the school cares more about individuals who want to be there instead of only chasing rankings which is probably much better for the school culture.

  • cauliflower

    Two points:

    1) Ross still has a larger class size than all but 5 schools in the Top 15 (HBS, Booth, Wharton, Kellogg, Columbia)
    2) Ross only had the larger class size for 3 years and it’s still larger than what it was pre-2010.

  • Reality

    Most Ross students turned down Fuqua… so believe it.

  • Really?

    Ross gamed the system by reducing enrollment? Really?? There are fewer students in the same number of sections/cohorts, clearly a positive for student experience. Plus, there are still more students at Ross than Fuqua.

    Fuqua students sure are a sad, insecure lot.

  • nachman58

    Actually was a Cornell grad myself and will be most likely going to Ross in the fall, so I guess I would concur with you about Ann Arbor being a ‘fun’ place as opposed to Ithaca, although the weather is indeed equally awful. I don’t really know much about Charlottesville but I’ll take your word for it. Still doesn’t explain why Dartmouth is rated higher. Never really understood the whole rep around Dartmouth – undergrad wise it’s really not any better than Cornell. Cornell is probably much more academically challenging. The difference gets even more exacerbated when it comes to MBA. Maybe it has to do with the alumni network?

  • nachman58

    While we may have qualms with the rankings, it’s not accurate to say that the US News rankings are ‘rendered illegitimate’ by this year’s results. Rankings are not based on ‘highly evident dynamics’, instead they are based on hard, quantifiable data. Sometimes the numbers tell you something different than what the prevailing opinion is, and because of that, people cry foul. But that’s what hard numeric rankings are for – because oftentimes our preconceived notions are misguided. Bottom line is the US News rankings are still the gold standard for MBA rankings. After all, why does it show up first in a Google Search for ‘MBA Rankings’?

  • derma

    Dartmouth’s prestige is so unique, next only to harvard. Ask any influential businessman or CEO, and they will tell you the same!

  • Think about it

    While I’m sure Ross admissions does not mind seeing higher GMAT/GPA with reduced enrollment, you do realize that there are many legitimate non-ranking related reasons to cut enrollment, right? Smaller classes, more personalized professor interaction, more physical space in the building, more personal access to recruiters, more talented/capable student body who are a better fit with the school and on and on.

    Full disclosure, I’m a 2nd year at Ross, where my class is around 500 (before the reduction). I definitely could point out 20 or 30 students who probably should not be at Ross. If reducing class size can filter out even half of those, that would further improve the quality of the school for reasons completely unrelated to ranking.

  • Ramattan

    in new england, dartmouth is very very prestigious and highly regarded.

  • James

    Looks like GPAs at Harvard/Stanford shot up. Byproduct of a more competitive landscape, grade inflation, or an increased focus on GPA/GMAT from adcoms?

  • Hakim

    Tuck School of Business Administration is the first graduate business school in the world.

  • not sure about that

    Based on how students from Fuqua react to rankings, you would not think that they are irrelevant.

  • anon

    Wharton’s GPA and GMAT are still lower than HBS/GSB… It’s their placement data that helped increase its ranking

  • GEORGE

    when the application number inflate, GMAT and GPAs are the easiest way to sort things out!

  • Herman_Miller

    Fuqua reacts are understandable, it is the school that trying hard to be top 5 or 10. But my point is about well established schools such as Harvard and Columbia, even if we see Harvard down in the ranking, I strongly believe it will remain the number one school. and that what happened to columbia, it experienced decline in most rankings, yet, their selectivity, and yield rate didn’t change, it is still on the top regardless of ranking..

  • MBAAlum

    Exactly, let’s not get carried away with these rankings.

    Ross, NYU, Fuqua, Yale, Darden, Cornell, and Anderson are all peers in the same group.

  • Meh

    Anyone know when new Businessweek rankings arrive for full-time MBA programs?

  • Duke Alumnus

    If this is true, then I’m 110% certain that it’s for financial reasons. All things being equal, no one in their right mind would turn down a Fuqua education (with the added prestige of going to Duke) for Ross.

    I can name so many reasons why going to Ross over Fuqua is a sad choice if finances aren’t a concern–beginning with the weather.

  • Duke Alumnus

    Too bad for you academics isn’t the only thing that makes up an undergraduate experience and Dartmouth totally trumps Cornell in providing that–beginning with the best teaching experience in America, which it’s rated the best in.

  • Duke Alumnus

    It doesn’t even matter if the lay person has never heard of Dartmouth or Tuck. The only people that matter are the executives in the C-suite making the hiring decisions.

  • Reality

    With all due respect, I think you’ve had just a smidge too much of the Team Fuqua Kool-Aid. The tuition is the exact same for Ross and Fuqua ($55k), and I presume the cost of living to be roughly similar.

    What exactly are all these reasons that make Fuqua a better choice than Ross, since your only listed reason is weather? I mean who selects a school based on climate? Perhaps that’s the only thing Fuqua has going for it compared to all the top Northeast and mid-West schools???

  • Orange1

    Points in no particular order:
    1) What’s interesting to me is how well Texas did. Can’t argue about the resources available at that school and job opportunities upon graduation.
    2) Don’t worry Ross/Fuqua/Cornell fans – BW always rates you very highly
    3) With all the people I know from Carnegie Mellon, Indiana, and UNC who have done well for themselves, cannot understand why those schools don’t get more love here. Seems Ross/Fuqua/Cornell/Yale get most of the fanboys/girls pumping these schools on P&Q
    4) Does a five point average GMAT difference mean anything? Isn’t that answering ONE more question correctly?
    5) Convinced that outside of H/S/W (sorry Booth fans) and three or four schools after that, there are ten additional schools too close to call

  • Am I right?

    Depends on who’s applying.

  • Quaker

    Wharton is the world’s first business school affiliated with an institution of higher learning.

  • Ins

    You sound really insecure.

  • Quaker

    Overall, I’d put HBS over every single university. For Finance MBA, I’d put Wharton over HBS and Stanford. But for overall MBA, I’d put HBS then Stanford then Wharton as top-top tiers. Then the rest.

  • Renault

    (lol at putting cornell ug in the same league as dartmouth ug)

  • psk

    The bottom line is that Wharton has the best job placement record and highest average pay of any school. One of the most important reasons why you go to business school is the get a good job that pays well. Wharton delivered on both.

  • Renault

    Eh, I imagine I’d prefer to bang Michigan undergrads than Duke ones — that’s a pretty convincing reason.

  • asdf

    I don’t go to either school and applied to both- I honestly feel both are exactly the same in prestige. It all depends on whichever suits you better. If you want better weather you’ll go Fuqua, if you want MAP you’ll go Ross. You really can’t go wrong with either school and saying one is definitively better than the other is a waste of time.

  • Pro

    Yeah, but Duke has real PrOn stars – can’t beat that!

  • mba20122013

    Full disclosure: I’m a Wharton student. Empirically, Harvard and Stanford do have an advantage. I can’t say that any particular program is better than another, because, well, I’ve only attended one school. However, from a recruitment standpoint, I don’t like competing against students from these two MBA programs. Harvard and Stanford have advantages in some of the most coveted MBA industries (respectively, private equity and venture capital), and this is no small matter for students interested in recruiting at those firms. You will have to work harder for your spot as a Wharton student. This is probably the most important criteria you should think about in picking a business school, whereas the GPAs and GMATs of your peers really don’t matter at all. I can’t really speak to Booth, except to say that I haven’t found myself competing against Booth MBAs in the recruiting process – this may be purely geography.

    Generally about Wharton: The “the best in finance” argument seems pedantic, but it certainly doesn’t feel like a finance school. Wharton is huge, this matters in all the ways you can imagine, positive and negative. Extremely solid in social impact/impact investing, real estate, and entrepreneurship. These could be standalone reasons to come here.

    More big picture: it’s terrible how polarizing these rankings can be. The most MBA programs any one person can attend is precisely one. This means discussions about rankings always come from a standpoint that is uninformed, and often suffer from serious cognitive dissonance. The fact of the matter is that if someone hasn’t attended a school, they’re in no place to judge it; if they have, they’re most certainly biased. Draw your own conclusions!

  • nachman58

    I don’t see what’s there to LOL about. In many undergraduate fields Cornell is actually Significantly better than Dartmouth. (Like, oh I dunno, every single Science and Engineering related major!) Pretty elitist of someone to say Cornell UG is “not in the same league” as Dartmouth UG.

  • NoNonsense

    MIT in tier 2? I am not sure people associated with MIT rank MIT above Booth

  • It’s Whatever

    Haven’t you heard? The person who runs the US News rankings is the most powerful person in American education.

  • Bobson

    “The only people that matter are the executives in the C-suite making the hiring decisions.”

    No, the only people that matter are the HR people and recruiters making the hiring decisions

  • Maximus84

    Great respons!

    Could you elaborate shortly on the aspect of social impact/impact investing? Is this field a priority at Wharton for the moment?

    I recently spoke with Prof. Stephen Sammut about his strong enthusiasm for business in emering markets, and it seemed like the academic leadership at the school was not entirely in line with some of his preferred pathways moving forward.

  • Anon 2

    I’m a Wharton grad, and I knew several people in my class who got accepted at H or S (a few who got into both) and went to Wharton. Is “several” statistically meaningful? Of course not. Is it more than “no one?” Of course it is. Do you lose credibility when you make sweeping generalizations based on no actual knowledge or experience? Absolutely.

  • Dutch Ducre

    yea they do, god the booth trolls are out in force

  • nachman58

    OK enough silly arguments here. These rankings are clearly a bunch of hogwash. I mean, everyone knows that the University of Phoenix online is clearly, by far the best MBA program in the land! 😛

  • spindoc

    let me state the obvious

    Tier one – Stanford
    Tier two – Harvard
    Tier three – Booth, Haas, Wharton etc.

  • Scott

    Couldn’t agree more Scott

  • mba20122013

    Wharton Social Venture Fund is a student run org with private capital to invest – one of the more competitive groups to join at Wharton, but very unique as b-school investing groups go (note: I think NYU and Ross also have similar groups with their own money to put to work). Wharton’s Social Impact Initiative has multiple faculty dedicated to impact investing, and sponsors student-led projects all over the world. We bring in Acumen, IFC and other big players in the space. There is also a solid social impact club, which is separate and more generally focused. I have no academic references for you unfortunately. It’s hard to explain the mentality here, but in short, academic research isn’t the highest priority for students or employers, so what professors are working on isn’t always a good barometer of what is important to the school.

  • James

    I could certainly see someone in finance choosing Wharton over H/S based on their placement stats. Although we shouldn’t discount other factors involved in choosing one school over another when considering these anecdotes ($$? Legacy? Wife/GF?). In any case, I will say it is probably more likely now that Wharton has broken into the top with USN&W.

  • devils0508

    Surprised no one has talked about Columbia. Only reason it’s even in the top 10 are the soft stats (peer and recruiter rankings). It’s getting killed on salary, hiring, stats, etc. The cost (highest tuition, horrible scholarships) and lack of loans for international are going to cause it some major issues once it’s peers and recruiters become adjusted to its lower caliber student body.

  • Renault

    (What you said does not contradict what he said.)

  • James

    lol.

  • arolar15

    Dude, don’t put Wharton with Booth and Haas. This is getting ridiculous. Again, this is the obvious:
    H/S>W>Booth>Rest

    99% of the world will agree on the above so stop trying to make ridiculous arguments for your case

  • Jimmy

    USN didn’t want to make a decision this year! What kind of ranking puts 3 schools as number one? You can do that for seat number 25 not for number 1. In terms of quality of the pool and admitted students, Harvard and Stanford are in a different world. At Wharton you can be “only” excellent to be part of the program. At Harvard and Stanford you have to be special. It is a complete different league ! Booth is still a little further even if recent stats indicate a change in the trend. But if you take the alumni and last 20 years there is no debate on which school is stronger !

  • psk

    Who cares about the acceptance rate? I want to go to the school that gives me the best chance of getting a good job with the highest salary. I don’t know about you, but if I’m investing $250K-$500K in an MBA then the ROI is important to me. Again, Wharton is #1 is job place and #1 in average salary, ahead of both HBS and Stanford. Those are the facts…

  • ffs

    Haas is not in the same tier as Booth. It belongs with NYU.

  • James F

    They definitely won’t just sit there an accept a lower rank. Fuqua was consistently in the top 10 until they increased the size of their intake. They’re definitely going to have to take steps to improve their scores and (as bad as it sounds) focus more on the numbers and less on intangibles like work experience.

  • James F

    Care to back that up with statistics? It’s easy to make proclamations. It’s hard to back them up with empirical data.

  • James F

    How do you know he went to Fuqua?

  • Jack Spade

    Great response. Surely there are plenty of examples of Wharton students getting good PE/HF/VC jobs out of the MBA program? There is a strong network of Wharton alumni in the buy side world, is there not?

  • Not logical

    If it requires stating, is it really obvious?

  • Orange1

    Steve, I don’t completely buy that. Cornell is still an Ivy League school and Ithaca isn’t down and out. The school has a lot of graduates on Wall Street. But like anything, it’s all about fit. Not everyone wants to go to school in a large metropolitan area.

  • uppercrust

    the only ranking that matter are the FT and Forbes and CBS is top 5 in those
    what CEO, CFO, Investor reads US news?. None I know of
    CBS salary is higher than stanford, kellogg,mit,chicago

  • mba20122013

    Absolutely. I hope that didn’t come across as “Wharton students don’t get jobs on the buy side”. Not the case at all.

  • spindoc

    you want a job go to Harvard.. you want to start a company go to Stanford. got it.
    let’s face it.. success is not defined by some recruiter..or working for the man. it’s defined by how much money you have in your bank account. that’s the beautiful truth,

  • Xoogler

    For economics, MIT > Chicago. Google it.

  • Duke Alumnus

    Those people aren’t making hiring decisions. If you had half a clue how recruiting works, you’ll know the final decision is always made by the people you’ll be working with. Recruiters only make recommendations and push for the managers and execs to bring you in for an interview (hence an initial screen).

  • Hines

    It is expected to have great posts from Wharton student and grads, unlike the other schools unfortunately. Wharton culture of decency and politeness is reflected on its students, that what makes it the best and most regarded business school in the world.

  • Duke Alumnus

    Really? You think this is the culture of Wharton? Have you attended Wharton? Their reputation is the exact opposite. But I’m not a Wharton student/alum so I guess we both can’t speak to that.

  • Duke Alumnus

    Interesting you suggested “Google it,” cause if anyone did so, they’d see that you’re incorrect. Chicago has more Nobel laureates in econ (and in general) than MIT.

  • GERMEY

    He meant hiring analysts and administrative, you meant hiring managers and directors :) thats the difference between Cornell and Dartmouth thinking’s :)))

  • Vlad_Putin

    Wharton> slight gap> H/S/Darden> big gap> MIT/Kellogg/marshall/Foster.

  • Paul-the-great

    inflation in GPAs explain why an MBA these days are different than MBAs 20 or 30 years ago. Now mostly analysts jobs 30 years ago, it is pretty common to be CEO after the MBA! when you go to many of those schools nowadays you find lots of vegetarians, soft bones, dreamy pinky kids who care most about their nails and colors of their beds!! and ridiculously they want to discover Mars!!!

  • 2cents

    “soft stats” actually have it lower than the comps in the top ten, and the “hard stats” only seem to float NYU (unless you’re talking starting salary). From the statistics Berkeley actually seems to get the highest bump from soft stats, and while the peer rank certainly is important (it’s good to be respected), I could very reasonable argue it artificially jumps Berkeley. It appears mr. devils0508 you might be grasping at straws here.

    The interest statistic for me is the “jobs-later” statistic. Does this mean more HBS and Stanford graduates are pursuing startups/just not-confirming with the school?

  • 2cents

    decency and politeness often are reflected in humility. Hines your 2nd above statement lacks humility on a grand scale, and in doing so you’ve actually taken away from mba20122013’s comment. I hope you are not a Wharton student or alumni.

  • lj

    indeed, lol

  • Rankings=Dumb

    A lot of people at MIT take it over Chicago. You get exposed to the future of technology and other major trends transforming industries…in addition to getting a leading quant and finance education. it’s a very unique experience.

  • Matt

    Love it.

  • Wharton_love

    usually, we do not care about cents :) cents remain cents :))

  • Gama

    why columbia didn’t get attention here?! is it that bad ?

  • themba

    This is completely inane. You are telling me the slew of students who score GMATs of 600, 650, 680 etc and H/S are somehow “special” ?

  • avivalasvegas

    Surprised at Kellogg’s fall. Guess all that new building hype didn’t count for much after all

  • Jimmy

    Of course they are! They have to demonstrate that despite their Gmat score they can join the class. It is not a Gmat score that demonstrates you are special (except maybe for those who get a 800 at first attempt) ony leadership in the job market can do that. A Wharton MBA student was maybe a former excellent worker at Goldman or Mc Kinsey. A Stanford student created his company at his/her 19 years old that now has some 50 employees. A Harvard student worked for China secretary of state! :) (that is a bit exagerated but it’s just to give an illustration of my idea :)).

  • spindoc

    S > H >> who cares?

  • johnston

    Wrong – historically it was HBS, Wharton and Booth. MIT and Stanford showed up in the 60’s/70’s, and Kellogg in the 80’s.

  • Johnston

    lololol Forbes and FT only? comedy. FT is the most marginal of USN/BW/FT, and Forbes is like Economist, ie more marginal than the big 3. Anyway, CBS is #8 in Forbes.

  • johnston

    Huh? Actually I’m pretty sure Ross is better than Fuqua and Yale. Since when are fuqua and yale that great? they’re just another couple of schools in the middling #8-14 hodge podge and really none of those schools is substantively better or worse than another. And Stern and Haas are clearly in the best position of any to argue for superiority.

  • Sign Here

    Columbia’s yield would be cut in half if not for ED. If you wanna call anyone a “cheater” it’s them.

  • Whartonite

    In your 20 posts, you’ve added zero substantive or empirical data to this thread.

  • Gama

    do you have any idea about J-term there? is it true that it is less selective than the normal Aug intake? would you recommend it for someone international and got accepted to Insead as well?

  • Sign Here

    Depends on what you want to do. Columbia is an excellent school — lots of opportunities in NYC that you can’t get at Fontainebleau. The J-Term is the exact same as the regular full-time minus the summer internship. If you plan on working in Europe, I would lean toward Insead. Otherwise, go experience New York! Congrats on both, you can’t go wrong!!

  • Whart

    And what is the culture at Duke? If we judge by you, one of bitterness, insecurity, and whining?

  • R2

    “It’s easy to make proclamations. It’s hard to back them up with empirical data.”

    You mean exactly like what you’ve been doing on this board with your posts?

  • Matt

    As a student at one of the schools you list in #3, I do frequently feel like a bit of an outcast on P&Q. So good post. :)

  • Stuart Campbell

    The last two BW rankings came out in November 2010 and November 2012, respectively. I would assume they will stick with that pattern.

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  • Sami

    schools in list # 3 do not care about egos, propaganda, or any teenage things. They prefer to work in real life and do well for their career.

  • moneymatters

    the biggest takeaway from this is list that the 4 ivy schools
    dartmouth, penn, columbia and harvard ahve higher salaries than the non ivy schools- chicgao, kellogg, stanford, berkeley

    shows ivy brand matters than some dumb magazine ranking

  • Ferdam

    what about cornell ?! :)

  • caramel

    Not true. Yale is a super ivy, yet, schools such as Tepper, UT Austin, USC, has better salaries than Yale SOM grads!

  • Whartonite

    I knew everyone would start crying when they saw that we’re the best school in the country.

  • We’re All Winners

    Just casually omit the other Ivy’s from your argument, don’t you? Also, look at location. Most Upenn, Tuck, and Columbia grads work in NYC. Cost of living is also higher.

  • James F

    I’m convinced that Fuqua will place additional emphasis on the numbers in this cycle.

  • HSW_4_life

    As someone who doesn’t have a horse in this race, there is an easy answer to why Fuqua is a better choice than Ross. That answer is prestige. Duke’s undergrad prestige rubs off onto its B-school (much like Yale’s does). A massive state school in the midwest just does not have the same cache (Michigan is still awesome. Don’t get me wrong).

  • proe

    Michigan has real pedophiles. What’s your point?

  • dnnn

    Ross is crap. It’s a bs no name state school in the midwest. Yale is Yale for god sake.

  • poe

    They’re ‘minorities’.

  • proe

    ANN ARBOR: U-M resident physician arrested for possessing child porn

  • Pro

    We were discussing where the women are hotter – that’s my point. I don’t know what that has to do with real pedophiles. But if that’s your thing, so be it. Different strokes for different folks.

  • Y

    Guys, please don’t argue. Yale’s business school is crap too (just like all other non-M7 schools). Unimpressive students and crappy recruiting. Although, I have to admit – works if you want to impress your grandma, the occasional taxi driver, some waitress, the guy at the deli, or some small business owner in the third world.

  • AS

    +1, agree.

  • Milton

    I would like everyone
    to consider that Cornell is probably very well placed to gain higher reputation
    in the near future. For that matter I have read in detail all your comments on
    this matter and would like you to remember that Cornell will officially be fully
    operating in NYC on Roosevelt Island with one of the most regarded, state of
    the art and exquisite campuses in world. The idea is to create a complete new
    concept with the Johnson School of Management competing in the toughest city of
    world with some of the best business school around. They are planning to create
    a Silicon Alley which encompasses technology and business, two key specialties
    of Cornell university. Considering the fact that recruiters feedback is a major
    influence in US News’ ranking and also considering that Cornell will be
    directly located in NYC in the coming years I don’t think it will be hard for
    the university to attack the best people and the best entrepreneurs, hence more
    alumni in finance. Cornell’s massive investment of over $2 billion, which will
    be financed without any debt by a very close knit community and network,
    demonstrates the powerhouse available to reposition the university. Some facts
    to think about: Cornell has one of the highest number of CEOs in Fortune 500
    companies please refer to: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2013/05/22/where-americas-top-ceos-went-to-school
    Considering Cornell’s placement (3rd) I believe this should be considered quite
    an accomplishment since it is one of the smallest b-schools among the elite. If
    you narrow down the rankings to only Fortune 100 companies Cornell’s ranking
    improves even more. The potential of Cornell’s future can be extremely high and
    while it will face fierce competition especially in NYC I believe that the odds
    are in favor of an interesting upsurge in reputation. One last consideration I
    think it’s worth mentioning and that clarifies the prestige of even better
    rankings in terms of success: http://www.businessinsider.com/universities-with-the-most-billionaire-alumni-2013-11

    Professors wise Cornell
    has just as many top business school professors under 40 as the elite ones: http://poetsandquants.com/2014/02/12/the-40-best-b-school-profs-under-40/4/

    Arguably most (but not all) of the contributors
    of each school come from the business school within the university…..this
    should give some additional insights on schools. I hope you all appreciated
    that I have tried to the best of my knowledge to provide you with only facts
    rather than subjective comments. What do you think overall?

  • Sloan v Booth

    I spoke with 2 different Sloan students from 2 different walks of life who both chose MIT over Booth primarily because of the culture at Booth. To use one of the student’s words, Booth is “where fun goes to die.” Obviously with so many students there will be a range of personalities, but can someone with more insight comment on why Booth would have that perception? The other Sloan student said he didn’t even apply to Booth after visiting the school.

  • Whartonite

    They’re right. Booth is so boring. No one likes fun there. I don’t attend Booth, but I still am able to draw such a sweeping generalization off of the one time I visited there. God, what a bunch of snoozerzzzzz.

  • Whartonite

    mba is right. Haters gone hate. We’re the best, but all the schools in top 10 are good. So get used to us being on top!!

  • Jeffrey

    Ross has a huge enrollment. If it went down to the numbers that many other schools have in the conversation it will likely vault to #8 or #9. Why do you think Haas has been up there in the last decade? Selectivity, GMAT/GPA due to high demand to be in the Bay Area. But that’s fine – no reason it shouldn’t take advantage of those advantages. Heck, Stanford has seen the same rise in MBA rankings in the past 20 years as well. Plop many of these schools into the Bay and they are easily TOP 8. Look at BW, Ross is one of only 3 schools that has been in the top 10 every year of the rankings – b/c the methodology is different, it’s based on students, alumni and employers satisfaction.

    Conclusion – any school can manipulate it’s enrollment – or refuse to expand – in order to gain some points in the rankings. But so what. The rankings are in many ways a reflection of the overall quality, so I think they are a good indicator. Students with higher GMAT/GPA, more selective, higher salaries etc. should all be considered as part of quality. I trust that Ross’s reduction of 50 students will help overall quality and student experience. It is overall a great adjustment.

  • My Dad is bigger than your Dad

    Wrong – it shows up first because US News pays more for SEO. Come on, man!

  • BCG Mgr

    Ross employment, network, diversity and salary trumps all of those, but Darden, Texas and UCLA etc are still fine schools. I just depends on what you want to do. Disclaimer I did not attend either. But I work I worked in CPG marketing and now for BCG.

  • moneydoesnotmatter

    Or that money loving pricks come from Ivy League parents and self select. That’s just one angle to consider.

  • Dave

    Haha your comment went directly against the premise of mba20122013’s post. Can’t tell if your comment was serious or intentionally ironic.

  • Orange 1

    Cost of living might be higher but don’t believe salaries at top 20 MBA levels vary as much by cities as other types of workers. If a place like P&G wants to attract candidates to Cincinnati or Kellogg’s to Battle Creek, they can’t afford to be too far below other cities. Ask any corporate transfer, salary changes do not offset COL in many cases.

  • Seriously

    Seriously, this alumnus is doing way more damage to his school than he understands

  • Goseeforyourself

    I would recommend that you visit the school and make your own judgement. I think the phrase “where fun goes to die” originally referred to the undergrad experience at the University of Chicago, and it is just convenient for people to refer to that phrase when talking about Booth. I did not attend the University of Chicago for undergrad, but given the university’s focus on academic research (exhibited by the number of Nobel laureates in economics and finance), I could see why that phrase originated. However, the business school experience is vastly different than the undergrad experience).

    Keep in mind that the vast majority of Boothies live downtown (as opposed to Hyde Park), in the Loop/South Loop/River North area. Chicago is a big city that offers a lot of things to do at a reasonable cost of living. Just like at any business school, people go out to bars, sporting events, music concerts, or clubs. With a large class size, you will be able to find others who share similar interests.

    Another aspect regarding the culture — something I originally did not know but was pleasantly surprised by — was the strong sense of “paying it forward” by the student body. Second years have been immensely helpful in providing advice and offering their time for coffee chats or practice interviews. Every second year I have reached out to has been willing to make time to meet. In addition, during January, many second years send out a google spreadsheet where first years can sign up for 30 minute mock interview/case interview time slots.

    MIT and Booth are both great schools. Ultimately, school selection is a personal decision; go visit the school, understand what the school has to offer, how that aligns with your goals and interest, and choose for yourself.

  • canada07

    Interesting rankings based on yield.

    Rank #
    School
    Yield

    1

    Harvard
    0.887619

    2

    Stanford
    0.84058

    3

    Columbia
    0.717433

    4

    Wharton
    0.687757

    5

    MIT
    0.684654

    6

    Booth
    0.625404

    7

    Cornell
    0.554702

    8

    Kellogg
    0.548853

    9

    NYU
    0.53322

    10

    Fuqua
    0.519185

    11

    Haas
    0.514344

    12

    UCLA
    0.51076

    13

    Michigan
    0.509518

    14

    Tuck
    0.496416

    15

    Yale
    0.484193

    16

    Darden
    0.463343

    17

    Tepper
    0.445676

    18

    McCombs
    0.431711

    19

    Emory
    0.431319

    20

    UNC
    0.424427

  • Matt

    This is interesting, but I don’t know how relevant it is.

    Maybe a school is commonly used as a safety by elite candidates. Naturally, this is going to hurt their yield statistic. Conversely, maybe a school is commonly used as a stretch by “silver” candidates. If they get in they are definitely going!

    Also, do those numbers consider varying EA policies between the different programs?

  • Dutch Ducre

    You mean like these posts?

    Whartonite:mba is right. Haters gone hate. We’re the best, but all the schools in top 10 are good. So get used to us being on top!!

    Whartonite:They’re right. Booth is so boring. No one likes fun there. I don’t attend Booth, but I still am able to draw such a sweeping generalization off of the one time I visited there. God, what a bunch of snoozerzzzzz.

    Whartonite:I knew everyone would start crying when they saw that we’re the best school in the country

  • ProspectiveMBA2015

    Seems like Tuck is a little undervalued here — Top 6 GMAT, Top 2 in pay (besting both Harvard and Stanford), Top 3 in job placement. Then again, I would assume any school on this list is AMAZING, even if Tuck feels like it should be ranked in the 5-7 range.

  • Bluechip

    I am both a graduate of the Wharton school and Booth School
    of Business. I am not sure when exactly the stature of an MBA program come to
    be defined by its placement in either the private equity or venture capital industries.
    But, while at Wharton, just about every student, particularly male, aspired in
    becoming a trader on Wall Street. Private equity/venture capital, investment
    banking and management consulting were for those who could not get into a role
    in trading.

  • Thankgodyouarentatbooth

    Thank god you aren’t at Booth… It’s people like you who are bringing down Wharton’s name… sad…

  • FStratford

    Boothies should be happy (along with the Whartonites) with these results:
    1) They are now finally separate from K/MIT in USNews. Finally getting ahead of that pack and finally freed enough to take a shot at the top, like they did on BW.
    2) For the first time in forever, they are tied with HS and W in their peer assesment. Fix that recruiter assessment and that triple tie can become a quad. Its the peer assessment that never changes from ranking to ranking and hardest to improve on. The rest are easy.

    Im just glad that Wharton’s drama seem to be over. I was tired of the bashers as well as the Whartonites who could not accept that something indeed needed fixing and fast.

  • princess

    This is exactly what every Duke Fuqua person is thinking right now.

  • ClevelandSteamer

    completely f*king agree

  • Ronald

    I hear kids these days are turning down Ross to work at McDonalds. Not even corporate, but franchise cashier roles. So sad… ugh.

  • com’n man

    tl;dr

  • truth

    3 way best*..still impressive, but lets at least be accurate.

  • Prince

    Why is every Duke Fuqua person so insecure? I get that every MBA has pride in his/her school, but Fuqua students seem to place a very unhealthy amount of their self-esteem into these rankings.

  • avivalasvegas

    Thanks Whartonite. You stand for everything Wharton.

  • Orange1

    I saw the other post – my view? I was heavily looking at Johnson BECAUSE it is in a rural location. My background includes working in NYC and LA. I wanted to get away from the rat race and the idea of upstate NY, yet still close enough to hit NYC or Boston for a long weekend was appealing. Ultimately I did not go because of personal considerations, but I think you are worrying or concerned way too much about their reputation. It’s a great school in the tier along with NYU, Michigan, Darden, Duke, Yale, and UCLA. There really is no way to differentiate these schools in terms of students/professors. Want rural? Cornell. Manhattan? NYU. Palm Trees? UCLA. All these schools are making strong performance enhancements. It’s not like one of them has a secret formula! Most of these schools have classes of 3 or 400 people-not like the days of undergrad with thousands.
    If Cornell had risen three spots, would your education or opportunities if you go there have changed? @Future, visit the school, talk to students, see if the atmosphere and location work for you, and if it is the right fit, enjoy the two years there. Assuming you are going to be in the workforce for a few days, how do you even know where Cornell will rank in 10 or 15 years? Nobody does.

  • FutureMBAHopeful

    @Orange1
    Thanks for the insightful reply. From my research, I agree strongly with what you say about Cornell, Duke, Yale, Darden, NYU, Michigan, and UCLA all being approximately equal in my own eyes. I also am personally drawn to non-urban locations, as a personal preference. It does seem silly to focus on a few spots in rankings as making any true difference, but that seems to be what happens when once starts to get caught-up in the admissions process and research etc.
    It does seem like Cornell is making a lot of strong moves recently and the new admissions data seems to bear this out loudly and firmly. It is my current top choice…
    Curious – which school did you choose to attend and are you pleased?

  • Orange 1

    Well, rather not disclose on here but it was one of the seven you mention. Yes I was pleased. Here are the reasons: 1) exposure to people from all over the world with diverse backgrounds, 2) very useful teaching in a variety of subjects, 3) opportunity to interview for quality positions, and 4) quite frankly, the other reasons provided an environment for me to do some growing up, personally and professionally. Also, I was in a situation where I had a very good part time job that took away a lot of the concern about paying tuition so that was a good part of the equation.
    Like any school, there are pros and cons and you get out of it what you put into it (cliché but true). I was involved with a couple of groups that were a good way to meet people. It is way too easy to get caught up with studying and networking for post grad positions without making any good friends.

  • Andy

    THIS!

  • avivalasvegas

    I’m curious, in a mature, non bashing sorta way, why Kellogg fell two places? They have a new’ish Dean, they’ve been on an upwards ranking trajectory and with their new building announced, I would’ve thought they’d hold on to their 4th place at the minimum. I was quite surprised to see their fall.

    Any insights?

  • Ragnar Danneskjold

    Well using your own logic – you must be a Booth student since you put Whaton and Chicago at the same level.

    But on a serious note – I have came across quite a few executives from fortune 500 and collected many data points. Basically they view Harvard and Wharton as top schools, followed by everything else. Outside of technology, Stanford is viewed as a regional player. I’ve never heard it mentioned in the same league as Harvard and Wharton among executives in the industry (CEOs, CFOs, CMOs, COOs, etc). Harvard and Wharton win here because of the size – they simply have more top execs placed in the industry and general finance. Stanford wins big in technology.

    The story is different when you talk to PE, VC and Hedge Funds. They do recognize Stanford as the very best business school, often above HBS and certainly above Wharton. Although in the end of the day to land a job with the top HF or PE fund, you must have the right experience – the name of the business school is not that important. Basically if you did M&A at Goldman for 2 years followed by 2 years at Bain Capital and currently attend XXX MBA program, you will get an interview at Viking, Paulson, Soros, etc.

  • guest

    Rankings tend to suffer when new Dean’s come in. Also, the new building hasn’t been completed yet. When it does the satisfaction and prestige factor will be higher I imagine.

  • Simon_2

    Why Dartmouth is in such low place?! It used to be the best business school in the world according to Economist or Financial Times! Is it that bad in america?

  • HELLOOOOOO

    Acceptance rate is a fair argument. But yield is quite telling. And Wharton’s yield is much much much lower than HBS and GSB. That is a clear indicator that students do not value the school equally.

  • JP

    rak mentioned their international reputation puts MIT higher than booth and he’s correct. As an international student myself, I can say definitively that the only university that is more well known on an international scale than MIT is Harvard (Notice I’m saying MIT and not Sloan). There was a ranking done very recently (can’t remember by whom) and covered on P&Q that was based solely on the reputation or renown of universities…check it out.

  • JP

    I’m one of those people who chose Sloan over Booth :-)

  • JP

    I wish everyone who visits P&Q would read this comment. By far the most sensible one available anywhere on this website. Well said mba20122013, I agree with everything you’ve said.

  • M7_aspirant

    Just wanted to post a neutral comment here. Isn’t this a classic case of confirmation bias? You only sought information that proved your argument but didn’t seek any that disproved it. Also at hand may be availability bias: as an example, let’s say I met 10 students who chose Sloan over Booth and I only met 10 Sloanies. Well, there may have been 90 Boothies who chose Booth over Sloan but I have a wrong impression because of my availability sample. Again, this is just an example that makes my case. I think both Sloan and Booth are terrific schools and anyone attending either will do just fine.

  • Charles84

    Dartmouth is no longer considered top tier school by many recruiters and students. Still good school but comparable to top 15 to 25 schools. It lacks brand, location, high salaries, and seems to be very original school rather than global. Diversity at tuck suffers. good for people living and targeting careers in upper valley area.

  • Wolfsbane11

    #9 is low? If you look at US News and World Report’s rankings over the years, Dartmouth has typically been ranked at or near that spot. Different rankings use different methodologies, and Tuck’s size and location has helped it in some, hindered it in others. I think the 8-9 spot probably undervalues it a little. You only need look at the list of employers, salary, and placement numbers to see that it remains an elite program.

    But any school in the top 10, really, should be considered elite and will likely offer the same value proposition. Your pre-MBA resume and experience will dictate your recruiting experience moreso than any rankings.

  • Wolfsbane11

    I’d disagree with that. It’s avg. salary even bests H and S. It’s recruiting certainly doesn’t suffer, as the most recent list of employers will indicate. It even manages to get ~3% of its classes PE gigs.

    It’s comparable to schools in the middle to bottom of the top 10. I’d pay little attention to ranking fluctuations though: the alarmists were all screaming about Wharton’s supposed drop in stature and continue to call Columbia (full disclosure: I’m a CBS grad) a school in “decline”; both claims have since proven ridiculous.

  • Wolfsbane11

    LOL

  • Wolfsbane11

    I’m a CBS grad, and I completely agree with the ranking. I will step in and offer that the only reason our at grad placement is a bit lower is because so many of our students are vying for elite finance jobs and competition is fierce. But we do just fine on salary and we have such an extensive network that this gap quickly closes within a couple months.

  • Wolfsbane11

    Loved reading this post. I work with several Wharton grads and I’ve found most of them to be super competent and humble, which is quite a departure from the prevailing stereotype(s).

  • Charles84

    Have you looked into their latest employment report?! class of 2013! see the averages and medians, 115000 overall while most top 10 schools are 120000. What about its brand globally? Diversity in professional and personal background?! They have to do better. They are rich, no lack of money.

  • fuhrer

    Tuck is weird school.

  • Wolfsbane11

    The median salary stat is misleading because so many of their grads go into Management Consulting, so bonuses actually bring their total comp past the averages of all but 2 or 3 schools. I do agree they could use some more professional diversity as they’re mostly known as a consulting school, correct me if I’m wrong. But those are high quality MBA gigs so why would they change that?

  • Wolfsbane11

    They didn’t “fall” so much as they stayed consistent while Booth had a banner year. Not much separates them from the #5 spot. People tend to forget just how close the scores are (and subjective) within 2 or 3 spots in a ranking. Almost negligible.

  • Corp

    You should be writing this. Your point 1) is standard commentary (not meant with + or – connotation, just observation) and true.

    However your point 2) is more insightful than half the stuff you see on here, just looking at the absolute movements listed in a table somewhere by the ranker and filling in sentences around the absolute changes.

    What you say – peer assess is very hard to advance, and having moved it is a very real change – actually supports your speculation, which normally I would’ve dismissed out of hand.

    Also agree with last statement, sure. But really, the website could add value by figuring out more of the correlations between components and headline ranks, explaining the inside baseball. Because some of us, say, me, never dove far enough in the data to see the change you point out, and don’t have the knowledge of its import…I should caveat I don’t want the authors to make up causation and sometimes the articles seem pretty specious…but John being an insider could really put something unique out there with analysis like that.

  • MA

    Hey man, full disclosure, Wharton student. Stanford in percentage does place more students in PE, but I don’t think in HF, and not in absolute numbers. Stanford definitely does well (the best) in VC, but that is also a regional play. The opposite happens with HF: Wharton is a beast. There are 400 students in our IM club, and we won 3 of the top 4 MBA stock pitch competitions (btw, the judges don’t know which school you are from until after the competition).

    We got Viking, Soros, Bridgewater, and about 40+ other HF recruit on campus. In terms of IM we placed something like 100 students (about 12% of our class) on investment roles (IM), and i think about 12% in PE.

    In terms of competition for HF is Columbia and then HBS. Columbia has a great value investment program and they got home field advantage, being closer to other funds in the city. While I have yet to see any competition outside these two schools for NY/Greenwich HF, I have to say that as long as you are in a top 10 school, they’ll give you 3 minutes for you to pitch them a stock. Simply going to Wharton or HBS is not going to land you a job – mainly because your real competition are people who are already in the field. But the competition at Wharton in IM is so intense, that it will truly bring out the best in you.

    My 2 cents on the best business school topic: Go to the best school for you. Do your research. One thing I looked at was that I talked to funds and asked for their opinion. One interesting rating that has gone completely under the radar are the faculties ratings: In Finance, Marketing, Management, Operations and Accounting, Wharton ranks top 3 in each of them. In these fields HBS and Stanford have 1 and 2 top 3 rankings respectively. Take it for what it’s worth. Wharton is definitely not only a finance school.

    At the end of the day, I can guarantee you that a top 10ish school will take you wherever you want (provided you have the talent and the goods). It may take some a few more years and a lot of work, but by talking to funds I believe that MBA degrees are becoming more valuable in the eyes of recruiters, and that should be a win for everybody in this forum.

  • Subh

    I choose to go to Sloan where as my close friend went to Booth. There is remarkable difference between us, personality wise and talentwise ( we have almost identical scores on standardized tests yet we have our strengths and likings). I also took a number of courses at HBS. Every school has it own environment; however if you are a person like me who wants learning, rigor, fun, collaboration and accessibility to professors, Sloan wouldn’t disappoint you. It is not a big school but every person ( student, faculty, even admin staff) is unique and brings something of value to the table.

  • Vitor

    I was wondering about that… I wasn´t thinking about applying for Tuck, but now I probably will…

  • Vitor

    Do you know when the new campus will be ready?

  • Vitor

    I agree that MIT has a better reputation than UofC, but I think Booth and Sloan are too close to call…

  • fc876

    John, Wharton shows an 18.7% acceptance rate and you stated the class of 2015 had a 22% acceptance rate in your article “The B-School Class of 2015: By the numbers”. Which is really true? Please clarify.

  • JohnAByrne

    Not sure why the rate changed. The 18.7% rate is what Wharton reported to U.S. News several months later. I would accept the latter rate. Sometimes, early reports of stats can be off a bit.

  • fc1723

    John, I see a mistake in Wharton’s selectivity. You have mentioned in several articles that the selectivity for the class of 2015 ahas 22% and US News reports 18.7%. Please clarify. Thank you.

  • adera

    I’ve also seen that discrepancy.

  • true numbers

    John,

    Why are these messages being deleted? Your articles state that Wharton has 22% selectivity. US News states 18.7%.

    Why is there a difference?

  • true numbers

    P&Q states that Wharton has 22% selectivity. US News states 18.7%. Wonder where is the difference?

  • true numbers

    Wharton has a selectivity of 22% according to P&Q and 18.7 according to US News. John, please explain the difference.

  • fee

    Go Duke!

  • Paranoid

    Somebody is a bit defensive

  • yeah,but…

    How much scholarship money did they receive? lol

  • KDS

    I before E except after C…

  • Whataboutmyinfo

    Hi All, my daughter is looking into Wharton as an Entrepreneur. I am reading all of your comments and it seems Wharton is a top tier for Finance. mba20122013 briefly stated Entrepreneurship as an extremely solid reason to go there but that was the just of it. Any other takes? Personal experience? She is looking into business schools en route to Culinary school. I went to Culinary school and straight to work. Though I am familiar with the process of looking into colleges. I’d love some first hand insight.

  • whataboutmyinfo

    and thanks!

  • killa

    Lol, what is this dude smoking? He obviously doesn’t go to Wharton. Everyone at Wharton knows it’s a finance school… pretty much the only name in finance, to the point where Wharton is synonymous with Wall street.

  • killa

    All the banks, hedge funds and PE/VC shops look to Wharton first. Other MBA candidates simply don’t stack up, esp. in terms of quantitative skills and analytical ability. Even here at LSE, we all know Wharton’s the first place they look.

  • FYI

    FYI: Although labeled here as the 2014 MBA ranking, this is actually U.S. New’s 2015 ranking (released in March 2014).

  • JohnAByrne

    Sorry for the confusion. As the story notes, U.S. News puts a 2015 tag on these rankings even though they come out in early 2014 just so that they are less perishable. The rankings are based on 2013 data and published in 2014 so regardless of what U.S. News calls them, they are 2014 rankings.

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