Harvard Business School Tops New 2015 Poets&Quants’ MBA Ranking

Harvard Business School - Ethan Baron photo

Harvard Business School – Ethan Baron photo

When Facebook’s Libby Leffler concluded that she wanted to apply to business school, she made one big decision: To apply to Harvard Business School and not to another famous school less than two miles away from Facebook’s headquarters in Menlo Park, Calif. Ultimately, she was drawn to the East Coast by the HBS alumni she met in her business dealings at Facebook and Google as well as the learning process in Harvard classrooms.

Leffler’s visit to the HBS campus, she explains, convinced her that the MBA experience at Harvard would not only be transformative. It would be, as she puts it, one of a kind. “Before ever applying to HBS, I made a personal decision that if I was going to go back to school and step out of my work at Facebook — which was challenging and hugely interesting in itself — I needed to be able to step into an environment that was fast-paced and unfamiliar,” says Leffler, who as senior manager of strategic partnerships at Facebook had worked closely with COO Sheryl Sandberg. “The case method requires you to learn new things in just this way. It demands preparation and synthesis of a large amount of (often incomplete) information to get to the heart of an issue very quickly and then engage in a productive dialogue with the people around you.”

The rich quality of the MBA experience which attracted Leffler to HBS is the reason why Harvard Business School was able to reclaim the title as having the world’s best MBA program in Poets&Quants‘ 2015 ranking of the top business schools. Nudging aside Stanford GSB, Harvard emerged the No. 1 program for the fifth time in six years in our composite ranking, evidence that an MBA from the school remains the quintessential credential in business.


Top 100 logo for 2015No rival beats Harvard in the formidable resources it brings to the game: more superstar professors than any other school, the diversity of its course offerings, the stellar quality of its students, the size and scope of its campus, and the career achievements of its alumni spread all over the world. Hardly resting on its laurels, HBS has in recent years taken a lead over all rivals in leveraging technology to deliver business education, emphasizing entrepreneurship and innovation in its core curriculum, and providing well-planned global immersions for its MBA students. It also has the capacity to retain its lead, with a $3 billion endowment, three times the size of its nearest competitor Stanford. With three years left before the end of an unprecedented $1 billion capital campaign, HBS had already raised $861 million by last June.

Stanford, rocked by a leadership crisis and sex scandal that has made headlines all over the world, slipped to second place in the new P&Q ranking. More telling, perhaps, the gap between HBS and its perennial West Coast rival–as measured by the underlying index scores in the ranking–is the widest it has ever been since P&Q began ranking MBA programs in 2010. That is a surprising development because the rankings have yet to fully reflect the damage to Stanford’s reputation caused by the scandal which has left many alumni feeling disappointed and angry with the school and the university.

P&Q’s lineup of the best U.S. MBA programs, which combines the five most influential rankings and weighs each of them by the soundness of their methodologies, produces a more credible list of the best MBA programs. All so-called M7 business schools, the super elite group that comprise the Magnificent 7 MBA programs, are all solidly in the top seven. There’s No. 3 Chicago Booth, No. 4 Wharton, No. 5 Kellogg, No. 6 Columbia, and No. 7 MIT Sloan. Rounding out the Top Ten are No. 8 UC-Berkeley Haas, No. 9 Dartmouth Tuck, No. 10 Yale School of Management.

Getting into any top business school is as difficult as ever, especially at the more highly ranked schools. Some 9,686 applicants applied for one of the 937 seats in this year’s incoming class at Harvard. With an acceptance rate of just 11%, nearly nine out of every ten candidates were turned away. And the odds at Stanford were even steeper, with the school accepting only 7% of its applicants.

The degree’s appeal, moreover, has never been greater, especially at the most highly selective MBA programs. This year MBAs from the best schools have entertained all-time high offers in starting pay, with the Great Recession a distant memory. Graduates of both Harvard and Stanford business schools walked off campuses this year with median total compensation packages that exceeded $150,000 in salary, signing bonus, and other guarantee comp.

CORRECTION: The story has been updated to account for a correction in the rankings which puts Washington University’s Olin School at a rank of 23rd. We regret the error.

  • Steve Mitchell

    Get over yourself

    Are you so insecure that all you live for is a ranking or piece of data that helps build your self esteem?

    GSB will always be the place where quants become reshaped in to productive assets.

  • Derek Loh

    The global rankings criteria have always been US-biased for obvious reasons; these rankings or league tables are developed based on American institutions or focuses on US and European institutions traditionally when they first began. The meteoric rise of Asian universities in recent years is a trend that is likely to accelerate. This is reflected in the strength and growth of Asian economies and its contribution to the global economy. Most European institutions of higher learning are simply basking in its legacy reputation with little improvements or innovation to show over the past decade. The same goes for many US universities with the exception of the top few universities like Harvard, Stanford, U Penn, MIT, Chicago, etc. On the contrary, Asian universities especially those in Singapore, Korea, China and Hong Kong have innovated and grown exponentially. Historically, Asian universities lack the global recognition and marketing prowess of their counterparts in the US and Europe. Global ranking league tables also use criteria that are more biased towards US and European institutions like citations and reputation which are biased factors they are relatively subjective. As Asia continues to take center stage in the global economy, global attention and focus are turning to Asian universities who have rightfully earned this hard fought recognition. For instance, NUS, NTU in Singapore, HKU, HKUST and CU in Hong Kong, SNU, KAIST in S. Korea, Tsinghua and PKU in China are highly regarded Asian institutions who have traditionally been recognised throughout the region and are now shining on the global education stage. Their meteoric rise in global rankings league table in recent years is well-deserved. In the coming decade, as the global economy integrates further, the reputation, depth of curriculum and offerings and recognition of these Asian institutions will not only rival, but may potentially surpass the likes of Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, MIT, Oxford and Cambridge. Participation in exchange programmes with the aforementioned highly regarded Asian institutions or a degree from them would put any graduate in good stead, especially those seeking career opportunities within Asia.

  • MBA2018

    Sorry, man. As great as Booth is (as an NU undergrad, it pains me to say it’s probably a better overall MBA program than Kellogg, and certainly trending in a better direction), there’s no comparing the student bodies’ social “well-roundedness” or sense of school spirit.

  • StillSubjective

    To clarify, yes, total application #s matter somewhat as far as indicating draw, but again, 1) This is an input. And 2) there should be some adjustment based on being in a major metro area or not. Sure, Harvard would still get most of its many applications even if it were outside of Boston because it’s Harvard. But schools like USC Marshall wouldn’t get nearly as many.

  • StillSubjective

    “..which combines the five most influential rankings and weighs each of them by the soundness of their methodologies.” And the “soundness” is determined by the OPINION of P&Q, and its opinion is that the US News Rankings matters the most. Don’t get me wrong, the ones at the very top (H/S/W) make sense. It’s the rest of the top 20 or so.

    Something like a high GMAT is an indicator that the MBA him/herself is bright, but why should it matter for the ranking of the school itself? As Bill Gates once said, all things like standardized tests prove is that the person was already bright *beforehand*. In other words, the SCHOOL did not teach that person how to get a high GMAT. These things are INPUTS.

    Same with selectivity. Schools like UCLA and NYU inherently benefit from being in the middle of a major metro area so they will naturally get a higher base of applications by default. And even if you want to go to NYU or Columbia because they’re in NYC, it’s not like those *schools* created NYC.

    Meanwhile schools like Dartmouth and Cornell are in the middle of nowhere, yet they get #2 and #8 highest overall comp, respectively. Rankings like Forbes and (for law schools) Above the Law make more sense to me. They measure OUTCOMES (increase in pay, cost of tuition, student satisfaction, etc.). Lo and behold, schools like Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Cornell are all ranked higher by several spots. And for law, schools like Yale, Columbia, and NYU drop significantly. Yes, I know Forbes and Bloomberg biz-school rankings are also baked into the P&Q rankings and measure some of these traits. But P&Q *most* heavily weights US News.

    In sum, consider what difference the SCHOOL will make for YOU–the skills you can learn, doors it can open, etc., not just what skills you already had PRIOR to b-school.

  • Green

    Thanks for your reply, John! The conversion from raw score to index score is clear. But how did you exactly calculate the raw scores? HBS is ranked 2,2,1,1,4 and I’m aware you have the specific weights of each ranking but how could those numbers become 99.1?

    Sorry if I’m asking too many questions but I’m curious since I really like P&Q ranking and want to know more the details about it.

  • Sure, though this is detail that will only numb your mind. Essentially, the index score is calculated off the highest score achieved by any school. Harvard was No. 1 with a raw score of 99.1 (the result of mashing together all five rankings with the weights reported in the story). So HBS is indexed at 100, meaning 99.1 equals 100 for the purpose of the index. The No. 2 school Stanford had a raw score of 97.8, which converts to an index score of 98.7. Does that help?

  • Green

    Hi John

    I’m very curious but do you mind sharing how do you compute the index score from the multiple rankings? Thanks!

  • Green

    Hi John, do you mind sharing how do you actually calculated the index score? Thanks!

  • Rajat

    Harvard, Stanford, Booth, Wharton and Kellogg..pretty solid top 5…don’t see Yale cracking this anytime soon unlike what others have predicted…

  • Tom

    Surprised…u didn’t like Tuck…their students are usually quite well-rounded….also not surprised to see Wharton being bumped down by Booth……Wharton has essentially become a MBA factory with 800-850 students come out every year…so one is more likely to see uneven quality in the student body…..not to mention that 1000+ undergrads that the MBA students have to share the resources with!

  • Greg

    Good to see Booth right up in the top 3……I attended students events of Wharton, Booth, Tuck and Kellogg last month…..and came out most impressed by the quality of the Booth students from the entire lot!

  • Baffled

    These strange and disparaging posts that reference the U of C undergrad culture from the early 2000s always confuse me. Booth students aren’t introverted or nerdy…it’s business school. I hope Kellogg advances in the rankings so that these insecurities can be assuaged and baseless attacks on a culture these pathetic dudes have never experienced can stop

  • Booth: good ranking, but nerdy

    Love these debates. Always surprised to see Booth ranked so highly. I’ve met many current booth students: strange introverted nerdy types. The school is renowned this student profile, although I’m sure the those being hired into IB/PE bump up the stats enough (and the ranking) to make it seem like a great school to be in. Everyone in Chicago knows that Kellogg is the better program: more well-rounded students and better school spirit, which ultimately attracts more diverse employers when hiring

  • OtherCurrentApplicant

    Dude, that’s exactly the point. If you are going BB IBD out of b-school, you didn’t make it in finance pre-mba…

    Basically, any M7 student can get BB IBD if they try hard enough, it’s a joke. these firms are trying to give away associate jobs. If you were successful out of UG, you already did IBD and are focused on PE or something else i.e. why Booth is outplacing CBS/Wharton

  • avivalasvegas

    I have spoken to many a Chicago/ Kellogg student who are frustrated by the fact that many top PE/VC firms don’t consider prospective candidates from the Chicago schools. It used to be the same for Media and Entertainment jobs, with those going to both East/ West coast schools.

  • Hank Piccion’s Moody

    Yale does not even make the top 10 in either undergrad or grad ranking.

  • Andrew

    My thoughts below

  • NotCerta

    John, what are you predictions on US News rankings regarding Kellogg? their class of 2017 profile with 3.6/724 averages is almost identical to Booth and now much higher than Sloan. Do you think they leap back to 4 or 5?

  • Hank Piccion’s Moody

    At HBS, which I believe is 2nd best MBA, they do startups, because they have to for one of the most popular courses. 90% are fake or not great ideas. At Stanford and MIT, startups are real because that is the vocation of the School and of the undergrad surrounding.

  • Incubate Not Hyperbolate

    If you want to attend a program with 100+ people (per class) in its start-up ecosystem, there are only THREE to choose from.

    The four best schools (% and total) to go to with start-up fever are Stanford, Harvard, Wharton, and MIT. Honorable mentions for Columbia, UCLA, and Yale.
    Berkeley and Ross are drastically underperforming here with respect to popular perception…and Booth is underperforming as well!

    According to BusinessWeek, schools that rank highest (by %) of their MBA classes that a) work for start-ups plus b) start their own businesses:

    1) Stanford – 29.0% (~118 total)
    2) Harvard – 19.8% (~186 total)
    3) MIT – 15.7% (~64 total)
    4) Wharton – 12.8% (~110 total)

  • Hank Piccion’s Moody


  • avivalasvegas

    By that same logic, you sound pretty confident that Stanford would consider HBS a peer, friend.

  • BeReal

    You went to a Top 5 school that HBS considers a peer? Hopefully you attended Stanford, otherwise, you are greatly exaggerating your schools stature.

  • marcus

    You’re delusional.. Stanford has been winning the dual admit battle over Harvard for some time now. That’s a fact.

  • Francine

    This start-up ranking above (using BusinessWeek as the source) actually INCLUDES the start-ups that are founded. Booth had roughly 10 students found a start-up. 10!!!!!!!! Or roughly 2%. This metric is abysmal. Where’s the start-up culture in Chicago/mid-west??? That’s the real question.

    Booth and Kellogg are nothing more than hole-punching, meal ticket schools aiming for decent median comp and statistics. But there’s no entrepreneurial backbone, which is furtger evidenced by its middle of the road total comp 6-8 years post-MBA.

    One word: vanilla.

  • MITEngineer

    General management = jack of all trades and master of none. Wharton is no longer a finance school, case in point is the semester in San Fran for entrepreneurs, world class data analytics program and best-in-class Healthcare management program. Stanford probably graduates more consultants and possibly PE people than startups. Please get your facts right. The truth is a top MBA will only get you so far. I have friends in all 3 schools that both successfully and unsuccessfully recruited for their top industry. They are all now “entrepreneurs”.

  • StartupFever

    The real metric is not how many join a startup but how many found and get funded. On the latter metric, Booth is doing really well.

  • C. Taylor

    Thanks for your interest! It is indeed an interesting topic. You may think–or even assert–the cost of living doesn’t matter. However, it most certainly does. Discussion is welcome.

    Francine wrote: “Living expenses makes up the majority of cost of living.”
    For any given lifestyle, costs can vary quite drastically from location to location. 150k in NY City is quite different from 150k in Austin. A gal in Austin making 150k is much better off and has much more money to either squander or squirrel away than one in NY. ‘Safe as houses’ isn’t exactly true, there are significant opportunity costs. And on average in the US, the cost per square foot of new home has actually come down over the years.

    Francine wrote: “By 6-8 years out, people are most likely not geographically clustered around their schools.”
    Cost of living adjustments here are made according to where people live and work, not where they attended a program.

  • Francine

    The cost of living doesn’t matter as much as you think. Living expenses makes up the majority of cost of living. And by 6-8 years post-MBA, most people own homes – so even though they’re paying more into their homes, it is ultimately pouring into their own equity/tax shelter. By 6-8 years out, people are most likely not geographically clustered around their schools. Assuming the top-10 schools are “global” brands with global reach, I would think that the cost of living factor should not be a relevant point here. That is, unless you’re suggesting that Chicago is a regional school whose students solely enjoy cornbread and beans in the Midwest…

  • C. Taylor

    Snapshots of a single point in time and representing programs of eight years ago should be taken in context. Things change. The cost of living matters.

  • ADventureCapitalism

    It’s a shame that rankings don’t consider the character of the student body. As a GSB student, I am taken aback by how humble, gracious and inclusive my classmates are every day, and am so grateful for my peers’ unwaveringly cooperative, collaborative spirit. Students here genuinely care about one another – our classmates’ experiences, learning goals, futures, etc. Of course we have a few outliers, but they are clear extremes. Yes, the entrepreneurial spirit is very present, students who are looking to start their own businesses right out of school are by no means a majority – not even close, in fact. One of the most inspiring things that I get to witness every day is my classmates pursuing passions and purposes – whether that was on Wall Street, in DC, Silicon Valley, abroad, or elsewhere. I am not a big believer in rankings; though I was fortunate to attend a liberal arts school that enjoys a very comfortable position and reputation from year to year, some of the brightest and most accomplished individuals I have ever worked with have been from undergrad and graduate schools that weren’t in the Top 3, 5, 10, 20 etc… The Garth story is sexy and draws clicks, but it has nothing to do with the people who attend the GSB or the graduates this school releases into the world. The people here are truly remarkable, and, I would love to see a measure that accounts for that. There is a lot to be said for considering character in individuals and institutions meant to turn out future industry and world leaders.

  • Sam16

    Booth?! Why?
    BusinessWeek provides a graphical breakdown of total compensation a) before bschool, b) post bschool, and c) 6-8 years after school. The results are largely in line with the popular rankings perception. Median total compensation 6-8 years after:

    HBS: $290k
    S: $277k
    W: $270k
    …HUGE GAP…
    Col: $240k
    MIT: $235k
    Berkeley: $235k
    Booth: $230k
    Kellogg: $215k
    Tuck: $215k
    Yale: $190k

    Median pay post-bschool DOES NOT tell the whole story. Far from it!

  • Start-up Fever!

    Adding to that, the four best schools (% and total) to go to with start-up fever are Stanford, Harvard, Wharton, and MIT. Honorable mentions for Columbia, UCLA, and Yale.
    Berkeley and Ross are drastically underperforming here with respect to popular perception…and Booth is underperforming as well!
    Click on the BusinessWeek link above, then click on the rankings link which provides a numerical breakdown of the schools that rank highest (by %) of their MBA classes that a) work for start-ups and b) start their own businesses:

    1) Stanford – 29.0% (~118 total)
    2) Harvard – 19.8% (~186 total)
    3) MIT – 15.7% (~64 total)
    4) Wharton – 12.8% (~110 total)
    5) UCLA – 12.1% (~35 total)
    6) Yale – 9.1% (~22 total)
    7) Berkeley – 8.6% (~18 total)
    8) Columbia – 8.1% (~55 total)
    T9) NYU – 6.0% (~21 total)
    T9) Tuck – 6.0% (~15 total)
    11) Cornell – 4.4% (~10 total)
    12) Booth – 4.0% (~20 total)
    13) Ross – 3.6% (~16 total)
    T14) Duke – 3.3% (~13 total)
    T14) Darden – 3.3% (~12 total)
    16) Kellogg – 3.0% (~14 total)

  • Stanley Fish

    Albeit admirable – thanks to their former marketing pro dean – if you want lower upside later on in your career, go to Booth. The facts prove it and it’s not even close.

  • wake up to reality

    You mean your NOT humble opinion. Booth in a level above Kellogg? Laughable. Just because you’re temporarily 2 spots ahead in the rankings doesn’t mean much. Booth was the bottom of the M7 from inception up to early 2000s.

    I can totally see Yale becoming in the level of Tuck/Haas in the next 5 years and in the M7 level in 10 to 15 years. Just don’t think is going to happen next year.

  • Holden Caulfield

    People put so much stock into all these ranking. Rankings are important but BRAND is more important, especially in the long run. I chose University of Cambridge over Booth and Kellogg. I thought it would be a much more unique experience (coming from the U.S), half the price and half the time, and it is highly respected across the entire globe. This is not a sales pitch for Cambridge or a knock on Booth or Kellogg (both amazing schools). Just throwing in my two cents :). The difference (in terms of professional opportunities created) amongst most of these top schools are very minimal (almost immaterial) so you should focus on schools where you think you’d get the most personal growth from.

    Lastly, if I’ve learned anything from my MBA program so far, its that location matters A LOT. Select schools based on which region you want to end up working in.

  • Watson

    Chicago Booth, solid. This is the school I most admire.

  • Pearl

    Conspiracy theorist!

  • Pearl 2017

    If I’m not mistaken, the endowments are as follows:
    H: $2.9B
    S: $1.0B
    W: $0.8B
    C: $0.7B
    B: $0.6B
    and most of the 6-10 ranked schools fall somewhere between $250M and $500M

  • C. Taylor

    B-school or Uni endowment? Uni endowments are easily available. B-school endowments, not so much.

  • Bagel

    Not surprising, as rich schools can afford larger marketing campaigns..

  • marcus

    considering Stanford MBAs have higher GMATS, GPAs, win the dual admit battle over Harvard 3 to 1, higher salaries… Havard makes a good safety school.. just saying.

  • tom

    Another Fuqua reject trolling

  • tom

    get dinged by fuqua did you?

  • Jason_L.

    Wow – HBS takes the lead again! It is such a strong school on this planet! It is well connected around the world and there is no other place to go for a world class education! I’m sure this phenomenal school will remain top over the next decades to come!

  • HBS-alum

    I’m an HBS alum and I can absolutely say that it was the best experience in my entire life. It was just phenomenal! Although coming from a non-US undergrad all doors opened! I received so many job offers that I could not count anymore. Anyways, I truly enjoyed my experience with very intelligent and accomplished people. Job placement is just exceptional. The alumni network is unbeaten. However you are going to turn it, there won’t be single doubt about who is the number #1. I do think, though, that other schools – especially the M7 – are exceptional as well.

  • Number one in the world

    HBS is the best school in the world. Hands down. Whatever you say or not say, it will not change anybody’s mind. It is certainly not true that HBS CEOs perform poorly! Look at how many fortune500 firms are led by HBS CEOs. There is no other school that comes even close to that. Stanford MBAs are far inferior to that.

  • Simone12

    You kids are ridiculous… Really? Mind you, this ranking (and these 0.5 point discrepancies are all within margin of error and it all is completely dependent on John Byrne’s interpretation of media credibility)!! Go pack a lunch.

  • The HBS “Elephant in the Room”

    So many people can slip through the cracks when you have a 90-person classroom of ME-ME-ME types vying for more air time. People spit out a semi-thoughtful point then they can sit back for the entire class period. Others bide their time hoping they don’t get cold-called. Bottom line, with grade-non-disclosure, many many people end up never truly getting tested and can slip through the cracks at a big “case-method-only” school like HBS – and they don’t learn any hard transferrable skills. Though quite valuable for the majority of students, it’s a 2-year ego-feeding vacation for the rest!…

  • StanfordOrBooth

    Good Catch. I was squinting on my iphone so, my bad.

  • hmm

    It is what made S special. S is where you go to have a real tight network of bright young professionals who are going to save the world. Now its filled with douchey bankers

  • hmm

    Nuff said.

  • hmm

    Interesting point. The rich HSB get richer. Its a vicious cycle.

    Someone should protest this injustice!!! The poorer schools, especially the publics, have no fighting chance!!!

  • who.are.you2

    Considering that you opinion is solely based on anecdotal evidence, please tell us more about it…

  • KeloggSucks

    Tomayto Tomahto. HBS is still on top as it should be and Kellog should be ranked higher than Wharton. Stanford is done, and I predict it is on its way down now that they no longer have a monopoly on Tech or VC

  • DF

    “People with massive insecurities” describes most MBA students, so prepare yourself to be surrounded by such people if you go into an MBA-heavy field.

  • dr

    Why would you round to the nearest .5? Weird, unnecessary and obfuscating.

    Instead, let’s look at real intervals.

    HBS>GSB = 1.3
    GSB > Booth = 1
    Booth > Wharton = .5
    Wharton > Kellogg = .4
    Kellogg > Columbia = 1.1
    Columbia > Sloan = .4
    Sloan > Haas = .8
    Haas > Tuck = 1.3

    With an average interval (100-93.2/8 intervals) of .85

    Contrary to what you’ve oddly produced (Kellogg and Columbia as equivalent, when they in fact have one of the largest intervals?), the above average gaps of separation are between HBS and GSB, GSB and Booth, and Kellogg and Columbia.

    So, the appropriate groupings are:

    Booth, Wharton, Kellogg
    Columbia, Sloan, Haas

    These are the numerically appropriate tiers under your approach. I find them to be plausible tiers, so kudos for the approach, though your execution was wanting.

  • Zach

    Shocked how many trolls this post attracts. If not trolls then people with massive insecurities. The attempts to create stark differences between schools that are essentially the same is ridiculous. Most people in the world would kill to attend any top 50 US business school. Making $100k a year (which almost every graduate of a top 25 school will do) at 28 already puts you in the 92nd percentile of all employed people in the US. Yet here we have people arguing that if you make $125k (Wharton) instead of $130k (Stanford), you might as well go crawl under a rock and die. It’s honestly amusing how insecure these people are. They’ve gotten to the tippy top of the pile and spend all of their time trying to prove that they’re .5% better than those just below them.

  • BM

    The top 3 correlate with endowment size H>S>B>others

  • HBS Case Method ugh

    Most HBS kids can’t even make sense of a P&L… Case method – bla bla bla! Your school is not doing you any favors and the administration is having a harder and harder time admitting (decades later) that its case method pedagogy is the most effective. It’s lying through its teeth with an arrogant stubbornness. Admit failure, adapt and change the program, and move on. Business is about adapting to change…HBS should practice this. It’s not funny anymore.

  • booth > kellogg

    Why should anyone in the world care about a top school if it isn’t even considered the best in the city in which it’s located? Kellogg…please do us all a favor and stop… You’re purple

  • jsdfkfj

    If Duke raises its GMAT….if Duke’s GMAT was higher…i always hear this….its not higher bc they accept dumb students.

    fuqua is a horrible learning environment. its dumb kids

  • Hank Piccion’s Moody

    When you can choose, you don’t really have to accept anything. As a matter of fact, if the college is by far the no. 1 in the Country (all rankings say so), the BS will soon or later catch up. As easy as that.

  • KelloggSucks

    What the fick kind of comment was that? Not funny. Not true. Altogether weird and unintelligent. Is that the impression you want to make about Whartonites? A bunch of weird uninteresting dumb jokers?

  • marcus

    lols… Stanford is the most selective… Harvard, Wharton, Booth are less selective.. you are correct. there’s always an excuse.. but make no mistake Stanford is the elite of the elite.

  • sowhat?

    wow, you are really getting off on this selectivity crap. Who cares if Stanford’s undergrad admission’s rate is 0.3% smaller than Harvard’s.
    Harvard could be the most selective Bschool tomorrow, if it cut it’s class size by 70%, but why would they?

    Stanford is known to game dual admit statistics, calling waitlisted applicants before they extend an offer asking if they would choose GSB over their current offers (most likely HBS).

    GSB is a one-trick pony: Startups. Those Bschools with such a one-sided focus (Wharton=Finance, Kellogg = Marketing etc.) rise and fall. Only one has been consistent that teaches General Management and that’s HBS.

  • CollegeKids

    I truly hope most of the people arguing about rankings are college kids. It would be a true shame if students from top programs would spend all their time online convincing their school is better than the others.

  • who.are.you

    Current HBS student here and no idea what you are talking about. In general HBS students love their experience and grow incredibly close due to their section experience. Alumni are super helpful, we get responses from C-level fortune 500 managers within hours and its hard to imagine any other Bschool can offer the same depth and breadth of access. Average pay is easy to bump up, if you admit less people and target only current boom industries. HBS is all about casting a wide net, which I love.

    Anyways, only my two cents. Haters gonna hate, that’s especially true for HBS. Look at the rankings an you’ll find a more objective rebuttal of your widely inaccurate points. HSB is the gold standard for Bschool education and with its resources and alumni base in play, its hard for me to imagine this will change anytime soon…

  • mmaier

    Current HBS student here and no idea what you are talking about. In general HBS students love their experience and grow incredibly close due to their section experience. Alumni are super helpful, we get responses from C-level fortune 500 managers within hours and its hard to imagine any other Bschool can offer the same depth and breadth of access. Average pay is easy to bump up, if you admit less people and target only current boom industries. HBS is all about casting a wide net, which I love.

    Anyways, only my two cents. Haters gonna hate, that’s especially true for HBS. Look at the rankings an you’ll find a more objective rebuttal of your widely inaccurate points. HSB is the gold standard for Bschool education and with its resources and alumni base in play, its hard for me to imagine this will change anytime soon.

  • The Interview Lobby

    A Wharton grad, a Kellogg grad, and a booth grad step into the lobby waiting for their interviews…

    Everyone on the mba community knows who’ll be sweating. The Chicagoans obviously just a bit under or (more likely) over-dressed.

    Even H & S kids, depending on the position, will be shaking in their boots. Employers/recruiters know it too. I’ve just seen it too many times. W has the right balance of focus between academic rigor, focus areas that employers cherish, and the social/organizational climate. Pretentious might be a popular descriptor for an HBS kid, but not a Wharton grad.

  • marcus

    lols you’re delusional.. Stanford has been winning the dual admit battle over Harvard for some time.. nothing has changed.. don’t get hopeful of all the crap written on John’s mommy blogger site. Stanford is the elite and most selective Biz school in the US. get used to it.

  • KelloggSucks

    Funny because Wharton is the one that is in Booth’s shadow. Not Kellogg. See what I did there? Kellogg will never be on anyone’s shadow because it will always be the undisputed King of Marketing and Consulting. Wharton tries, but with its sinking fortunes, which has never abated, it will never measure up.

  • currentapplicant

    Just give up. You cant fight the whole MBA community on this…

  • KelloggSucks

    Stop lying about your interview invites. You’re just demonstrating how pathetic you are.

  • noshit

    Stop making shut up. Stanford has nit won dual admits with hbs this year.

  • marcus

    A lot of schools are building their tech programs including Harvard emulating the gold standard in tech – Stanford. Stanford MBAs have higher GPA, higher GMATs, dual admits, salaries etc. Booth, Harvard, Wharton are all elite biz schools… But Stanford is the elite of the elite.. I know it, you know it and even John Byrne knows it..this article starts off with a dig at Stanford.. as do all the articles on this site. lols.

  • Harvard sucks

    Harvard sucks. People know it is a joke. Companies with H CEOs perform poorly. The H concept is outdated. For the 21st century others schools have taken the actual lead! Stanford MBAs make the most money, because they are the best.

    I talked to several Harvard alums and they just didn’t like the experience at all. The program is crowded with sponsored students, the atmosphere is not at all helpful. Therefore, you can’t rely on the alumni network. Students are sometimes a joke. Most of them have rich daddies and can therefore afford the best admission consultants. Most of the students have short professional experiences.

    Anyways it is still the #1. Let’s see how long…

  • SWI > H

    Harvard is okay, but it is getting worse. It is only show. There are much better schools for a dream career, such as Stanford, Wharton or INSEAD. In a couple of years these schools will take over. Just take a look on recent employment reports.

  • Curious

    What is your top 5 school wish list?

  • kellogg just ehh

    Who are you? Invincibility??? Really man…we’re talking about snot nose mbas here. MBB would take HSW over K in consulting in most cases…that doesn’t sound like invincibility to me.

    From what I’ve been told, Wharton alumni (especially in the past 5 years) rave about their 2 years at school and all the doors that the mba/huge alumni network opens for them. Wharton runs Philly and is a short distance from NYC and DC. W is one of the most well-represented brands in NYC too.

    Purple Kellogg is fighting to stay out of Booth’s shadow!

  • Current Applicant

    That’s common speak for semi intelligent people. As someone who’s been invited to interviews all across the M7, I’ll take my chances vs people demonstrably unable to make factually sound cogent points.

  • Current Applicant

    I know nothing, and you are demonstrably stupid.. Here we are, at an impasse.

  • Thank you

    Finally a voice of reason from an actual student. I too got in Yale and Fuqua, and chose Fuqua because of location and strength in consulting. They are both amazing schools that have unique value. The assumption that every Yale student is better than Fuqua’s because of GMAT is absurd and everyone at either of those schools will tell you that.

  • What?

    What about starting salary? Employer surveys? Seems like poor logic on your part to say that Fuqua isn’t better in any statistic.

  • FewQwaa

    Not to mention employers LOVE Fuqua and their career services is top notch. Fuqua also has a lock on the south with many southern based companies/consultancies preferring Fuqua grads over other M7 schools.

  • GMAT Tho

    Duke’s GMAT is almost 25points lower than Yale’s, and 15 lower than Darden’s….If they edged up a bit, they would be closer to that tier above them. US News places way too much emphasis on GMAT.

  • KelloggSucks

    Dream on, Wharton is a has been in Finance and has never approached K’s invincibility in Marketing and Consulting.

    This mistaken belief of yours is why Wharton alum and students absolutely hate Wharton (based on surveys) because reality does not match the blather.

  • StanfordOrBooth

    Once every 20 years… The exception that proves the rue. And even then, there were no holy cows to protect.

  • KelloggSucks

    ITT, what the hell is that? Zero prestige. Sheesh. I would be surprised if you get accepted to an M7.

  • colorum

    You are a current applicant. You know nothing, Columbia troll.

    Go work down in the basement.

  • StanfordSucks

    ha ha

    Stanford won dual admits 5 years ago, Not anymore. HBS now sends 1/3 of its class to tech, which means that S’s edge in tech is gone. HBS is also catching up in Startups. (But even Booth is catching up so that metric would not matter soon enough)

  • Current Applicant

    ITT people who use fact based and data driven approaches to evaluating opportunities at school are “going nowhere fast”. People who use internet populism and conjecture are those that are, presumably, going somewhere fast. This is how I know most comments are from people who don’t actually attend these schools.

  • Current Applicant

    Anyone who says CBS grads are going into BO roles is either a troll, or purposely misinformed.

  • marcus

    Stanford wins the dual admit battle over Harvard 3 to 1. most folks will not even apply to Stanford because there is little chance they will get in…(exhibit A of Libby in this article is a prime example). as opposed to harvard which is relatively easy to get in … 11% acceptance is not particularly selective. btw… Stanford undergrad is also more selective and has a larger class size than Harvard so there goes that theory.. psh:)

  • gregti1002

    I doubt ‘J.Love’ is actually affiliated with any of these schools, sounds like your run of the mill troll.

    Agree I go to SOM and don’t condone what has been said. Fuqua is a great school and I too almost went there, decided to go to a school in the North East.

    both good schools

    G. Love out

  • disappointed father

    Just give up…you can’t fight the whole mba community on this.

  • schooled

    Kellogg’s claim to fame is marketing and strong consulting placement. Not only is W on par with or better than K in consulting placement, but W actually passed K in marketing too!

    Then there’s finance…

    Overall, W is arguably the best academic institution of all bschools…across just about every field of study. Ask any one of your PhD friends or one of your professors at K…even they’d tell you that!

  • SillyWabbit

    Or C-suite…

  • colorum

    True. Not all IB HF and PE jobs are equal. Like the fact that Columbia gets the cheap backoffice roles in IB or the fact that it doesnt do much with big hedge funds and count 2 man hedge fund operations as if they are bid deal jobs.

  • Yikes

    Booth has more VC funded entrepreneurs and is not a one trick Finance pony like Wharton or Columbia. So your employment numbers dont mean a thing.

    Being a one trick Finance pony is actually a bad thing. It hastened the demise of Wharton and has made Columbia the laggard in the M7 since forever

  • KelloggSucks

    Booth not the same clout in Finance? Ha! It is not the same because Booth is better. Silly applicant. I can see you are going nowhere fast

  • StanfordOrBooth

    Based on the Scores, and rounding to the nearest 0.5, the steps are

    1. H
    2. S
    3. B>W, by half a point

    5. K>C, by half a point
    7. M
    8. Berk
    9. Tuck

    10. Yale=Duke=Darden

    Yale really is not much differentiated from Duke or Darden. Its 0.2 edge is not big enough to say that it is THE uncontested tenth man in the top 10.

    Booth is ahead of W but one can still make a small claim that W is just as good

    K is better than C but one can still make a claim that C could be better in a few areas

    The rest of the rankings are distinct

  • KelloggSucks

    agree. except K should be higher than W

  • MIT Rules

    Wharton produces lemmings that can crunch but not create value. Goldman and Google can use lots of them as backoffice support for Booth and Stanford superstars.

  • Wharton Sucks

    I’d keep Booth there. Perhaps switch Wharton and Kellogg, even.

  • nope

    There is an M7, and perhaps 3 that are M7 equivalents. Unfortunately, Tuck and Haas are good but really not that good in any measure. There are always at least 4 out of any of the M7 that is always better than them in any area.

    They are what you would call respectable M7 backups

  • StanfordOrBooth

    I know right? I mean if they can not get any love from BW and continue to get ignored by USN, they should just give up and settle at the back of the M7 with Columbia.

    Tuck, HBS and MIT are USN faves. In the case of HBS it too forever for Stanford to get at the top despite the fact that the Valley is now more important than NYC. MIT despite its weirdness and not being number one at anything seems to be propped up by USN for no other reason than the hope that it could become the Stanford of the East.

    BW has no faves, its purely methodology driven. Hence its really the best, but saying so can come bite one in the behind – see: W and K – because if your stats go down, BW wont change its methodology to prop up any faves… unlike USN who would constantly change methodology to keep, T, M and H up top

  • pft

    Wharton is struggling and it has been on the decline for 20 years. Booth has been on the rise for 15 years since Snyder. I think the point where Booth has surpassed Wharton has was 5 years ago. Its just alums from way back before the dotcom bubble and east coasters who are still in denial.

  • nope

    Sloan is at the bottom of the M7, along with Columbia. Accept it.

  • Wharton Sucks

    Wharton has lost its prestige a long time ago. It is a has been. Or rather, a never has ever

  • StanfordSucks

    Psh. Its only because they have fewer spots to fill. Stanford’s fifteen minutes of fame is up. The scandal is the final nail on that coffin

  • WesttoEast

    Hi, SOM’17 here.

    JLoveOut, you are not affiliated with SOM, we don’t need or want your kind of support. If by some insane chance you are a 16 or 17 or a graduate. Stop. Now. You are embarrassing us and the school. If you are an applicant, please do not apply, you are not a good fit for our culture or goals.

    Look, Fuqua is a solid program, it does better than us in consulting and we do better in banking. I applied and was accepted to both, and chose SOM due to are IBD placement.

    Both will set you up for success, albeit differently. Nearly everyone in my class is down to earth and really excited to be here.

  • Foolish Booth likers

    No one mentions that “not all IB, HF, PE roles aren’t equal.” Booth (4,000 apps) finds most of its grads staying in the Midwest.

    I hate to tell you this, but it just ain’t as competitive and prestigious to get into Barclays’ Chicago office. Finance powerhouse, yes, but it will never be on Wharton’s level of prestige.

  • Hank Piccion’s Moody

    I agree. The real metric is the Selectivity one.

  • Hank Piccion’s Moody

    John, I still don’t know how we keep the Economist in the Ranking and why we give Forbes so much influence. The other 3 are the only legitimate ones (apart from FT that is ridiculous with the Spanish Schools ahah)

  • Hank Piccion’s Moody

    I had no doubt when I had an offer from Kellogg, Stern, Booth, Wharton and MIT (in order). No doubt at all. MIT is the future (like Stanford and Haas). Wharton and Booth are the past (and not that brilliant as we all saw and sometimes experienced). Columbia, Kellogg and INSEAD are a joke (if you are sponsored, definitely great places).

  • goldushapple

    Stanford, eh? Not impressed. I thought they produced leaders who could think for themselves and question the narrative. Guess not. But continue the 5000+ posts on P&Q lie — it’ll show how shallow (and not as nearly as smart) elite MBA holders are.

  • JennyGSB

    Wow Goldushapple you actually did post over 5000 times on this site. Jeesh, you must be busy …..:)

  • goldushapple

    Look, this isn’t difficult to understand (well, in your case it is very difficult). The OP never mentioned Yale. I didn’t mention Yale. Why plug in Yale like it was brought up when it wasn’t? I’m fine with people using it as an example but Meghan practically shoehorned the institution into the mix.

    I’m here because I’m interested in the MBA process. I might apply for one but given the complete childlike nature shown here at P&Q I fear for our businesses. You want to manage a company yet you act this way? You need to grow up. Sort of like how the Yale Halloween Costume Chaos showed that elite institutions like Yale are producing children appearing to be young adults. Yikes. You have nothing to be proud of and everything to be ashamed of.

  • goldushapple

    Or that 5000+ comments were spread through various sites not even related to an MBA.

  • marcus

    Stanford is the most selective Biz school and wins the dual admit by 3 to 1 over Harvard. Harvard is still a good safety though.

  • WhartonPlush

    Goldushapple you have posted on an MBA blog 5000+ times. Get a life loser

  • JLoveOut

    Interesting point from…Rotman? what’s next you are going to pull up a stat that working at MBB is worse than getting a job at Accenture according to a study from the Business School of Reno Las Vegas.

    Get real, no one in their right mind would pick Ross or Fuqua over Yale. Just say that out loud its comical.

    You’re right Fuqua could have an average GMAT above 700….if they decided to do something that would attract smart students. But unfortunately the reality is they can’t and they aren’t

    You are twisting my words, Fuqua isn’t a bad school its just a worse school than Yale that attracts lower qualified/dumber students

    cheers troll

    J. Love out

  • Proof is in the pudding

    “In my opinion, Wharton is the best business school in the world.” ~Dana Bunting (Head of MBA Talent, Goldman Sachs) …other mentions, “Harvard and Columbia might be up there too.” Now clearly she might have some bias…but I don’t think she would spit out BS.

    Dying brand…

    We now know Wall Street and Silicon Valley are not such radically different worlds after all. In March, Google made waves by hiring then-Morgan Stanley CFO, Ruth Porat WG87. Then, Google made the CEO of its core business Sundar Pichai WG02. Tech is becoming backed by immense financial muscle. This is the wave of the future. Wharton’s future is very bright (esp with its San Francisco satellite MBA campus).

    These are the real conversations that are taking place in the business community RIGHT NOW – all while Stanford grads learn how to sweeten up VCs to their new apps ideas, with a few ground-breaking start-up exceptions.

    I have nothing against HBS, because it is very well-positioned as well.

    Booth, who?

  • Unsurprisied I Suppose

    Seems to be an entirely reasonable, albeit predictable ranking that meets most expectations on outcome – maybe a bit boring then I guess.
    The only debate really appears to the ongoing feud between Booth and Wharton folks about who is really #3 versus #4. Kind of sad IMHO because they are both absolutely amazing b-schools that will provide terrific outcomes. In my mind they are kind of tied and probably most people who do not attend either, will not attend either, or cannot attend either would generally agree.
    I still think Tiers are a great idea because it is very tough in my mind to really distinguish an actual ranking between schools such as Michigan, Darden, Cornell, Duke, NYU, and UCLA, and even Yale (to a lesser extent now, as they have begun to distance). They are all really in that 10-15 tier bucket.

  • Zach

    Yes, a middle manager role at Amazon, the horror. I have to imagine no one at SOM would every stoop so low, because Yale routinely sends their whole class to MBB and PE/VC. Oh wait, they don’t? They send about the exact same number as Fuqua/Ross? Fully half of Yale’s class last year went to some “middle manager” role at a F500 (or smaller) firm? JUST LIKE ROSS AND FUQUA? I went to neither of those schools, but your attempts to imply a giant gulf in quality between the schools is laughable. Here’s the thing about GMAT scores: every single school in the top 20 could hit a 730+ average if they just took high-scoring Indians and Asians. It’s not hard. Harvard and Stanford could fill half their class with 780+ if they chose to do so. The reason they don’t is that GMAT is one among many predictors of future success. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not among the top 5. I believe Rotman did a study among their students that showed it to be a very poor predictor of recruiting success. And given what a prestige whore you are, I assume your first response will be “oh, well Rotman did it”. Before you go down that route, just know that the professors at most regional bschools are staffed with Ivy League PhDs because the academic job market is even more competitive than the business school job market.

  • Zach

    I went to neither of these schools, but your comparison is so absurd it borders on trolling. Fuqua is a terrific school, as is Yale SOM. The difference between them (if any) is miniscule. I doubt you’re actually an MBA (most people who come on here and make arguments like this are not MBAs), but let me introduce you to something called statistical significance. In small samples, small differences in an average (such as starting salary, P&Q Index, etc) are often due to pure chance. When you have ~300 students in a class, a difference of $1,000 (e.g. $117,000 vs $116,000) in starting salaries does not reflect anything meaningful about the schools. It is such a small difference that statistically, it is as likely to be pure chance as it is to be meaningful. As you’ll note in the article, P&Q doesn’t consider any index difference under ~5 points to be statistically significant.

  • Zach

    Your signature single-handedly undermines your entire argument.

  • goldushapple

    You’re right, that’s what I wanted to write (in fact, I wanted to use “a penny” in place of “a dollar” to show the frequency) but I don’t see how that makes me “probably not smart.” The mind thinks faster than the typing hands.

  • goldushapple

    On “this” site? I suppose your verbal score was amazing.

  • Fuqua Fan

    Umm, besides BusinessWeek (which is arguably the most unrealistic least used ranking), Yale is ranked better than Fuqua in every ranking.

    And Yale is not ‘inflating’ the GMAT average, they just get smarter students than Fuqua. Don’t read into it so much. Each school has its strengths.

    if you want to be at one of the top educational institutions in the world, surrounded by some of the smartest people in the world, and get a great job in New York or a major international city then Yale SOM is your place.

    If you haven’t do very well on standardized tests, want to go to a school in the woods, wear a backwards hat to class like you are in high school and get a job at a third tier consulting firm in Atlanta or some other small satelite office…Fuqua is your school.

  • HBS18883

    I think the way you phrase this is typically, ‘if i had a dollar everytime someone….then i would have enough money etc.”

    you clearly are international and probably not that smart

  • GoldushappleSux

    Goldushapple you have over 5000 comment on this site, get a life loser.

    Everyone knows Yale is a top ten program and will stay that way. From what other ppl said above they have almost doubled the number of applicants in the past 3-4 years…so ya the Dean’s presence and new building clearly are having some effect.
    Average student has 720 gmat, 3.6 gpa (mostly at ivy undergrad institutions).

    Let me guess you go to Ross or Fuqua, had a sub 700 GMAT and are trying as hard as you can to get a middle manager role at Amazon. Try harder cry baby.

  • GSBeeBeeBee

    wow so true. well said. Stanford should focus on high-end techies, Harvard will always lock up the douchey 25 year olds who worked 2 years at Goldman getting their buns kicked, and now think they are owed the world when really all they are good at is making excel spreadsheets and pretending to be powerful.

  • DonnieRibioni

    John, people are always going to argue with any ranking because they have a horse in the race and feel they have been undervalued.

    Truth is the P&Q ranking is the most legitimate (outside of USN). My litmus test for rankings is usually: Would I select this school A over this school B if I got into both, if so, school A should be higher. Within reason (maybe a place or two) you shouldn’t have any situations where school B is 5 spots higher than school A, when EVERYONE would choose A over B. i.e. stanford’s rank in Economist at #9.

    P&Q has the M7 in the top 7 – where it belongs.
    Finally acknowledged Yale in the top 10 where it belongs.

  • redrover

    i 100% AGREE WITH THIS. what school you go to (in the top 10) doesn’t matter. it all comes down to prior experience and how well you interview. if you worked at BankofAmerica in operations and don’t interview well you wont get a top PE job even if you go to HBS.

  • JohnAByrne

    I agree with you about the M7. It is somewhat misleading because Tuck, Haas, and Yale or Duke pretty much make up what I would call the Terrific Ten. In some cases, in fact, anyone of these schools could easily be preferred over the M7. How so? Tuck remains the school with the single best alumni network and pretty much a singular focus on the full-time MBA experience (with no distractions that could potentially take away from the experience such as undergrads, part-time MBA programs, or a heavy portfolio of exec ed seminars that drain the best teachers out of the MBA classroom). Haas gives folks terrific entry into the booming Bay Area and like Tuck is one of the more intimate world class MBA experiences. Yale gives you an Ivy League MBA with the advantage of taking courses at any one of the university’s fantastic schools or departments and is arguably a more global experience than available at many other schools. My two cents.

  • JohnAByrne

    A school that is only ranked by one or two of the five major publications is at a distinct disadvantage in our system. That is because no adjustment is made for their score. The more ranks a school gets, the higher the scoring points the school receives. What that does is place value on consensus, the notion that if a school ranks in all five of the most influential rankings, it must be doing something right. If it only gains recognition in one or two, that is an important data point but it is not as solid as the school ranked across the board. This system also has another benefit: It penalizes schools that try to game the rankings by only participating with rankings where they know they have a better shot of looking good and refusing to cooperate with rankings that are less favorable.

  • Spartan 22

    So pointing out an OBVIOUS development about an MBA program on a website for MBA programs is yapping.

    Why are you here? SOM re-applicant? Better luck next time.

  • JohnAByrne

    Not really. While each of the five major rankings examine “quality” differently, the sum of them get to a more important issue: repetitional capital. Over time, these rankings impact what people think and believe about the school brands. Mashing them together brings you to a more valuable consensus point of view. Our composite list also allows users to view a school’s rank on any of the key rankings in context. So a user can see in one place how each school performs on each list. That is far more helpful than looking at a single ranking in isolation.

  • GetOn

    These rankings are comparing apples with oranges! Most people who apply anyways work only within a subset of these. Even when so many different factors are taken into account, who is to decide which factor is more important? Weight-ages are probably assigned with conventional ideas of what matters and what doesn’t to majority of b-school applicants, aren’t they? Anyone else here who feels the same way?

  • Current Applicant

    Hedge Fund and PE recruiting is almost 100% determined by your pre-mba experience. They prefer to hire the people with the top pre-mba experience. Comparing schools based on jobs that most people can’t get (even at HBS) is a dumb idea.

  • Current Applicant

    Look at the employment reports. It’s factually correct for the class of 2014 FT and the class of interns for 2015 to say that CBS did better with the top firms. This isn’t me pulling data out of my butt. This is stated on the employment reports themselves not to mention the data the IB clubs give out. Maybe in the most recent class the interns did better at Booth, but that info hasn’t been released yet. As of the last public employment reports Booth was lagging behind both Wharton and Columbia in TOP finance placement.

    For your reference, class of 2014:

    CBS: 11 JPM, 15 Goldman, 10 MS. Not all are bankers but that’s true for both schools.

    Booth: 9 JPM, 7 GS, 3 MS.

    Booth sent 15% of their class to IB, CBS 11%. That equals roughly 80 people for both classes due to differences in size and CBS is doing better at those firms.

    I’m someone who is currently waiting for decisions from Booth, Wharton, and Columbia (among others). It’s not as if I have a dog in the fight, but I’ve the done extensive research. I love that Booth fans/alums are so passionate, that’s part of why Booth stood out to me. But it’s certainly above and beyond the facts quite a bit.

  • goldushapple

    So once it reaches the coveted M7 can you and Meghan retire? If Brown ever develops/expands its MBA program like Yale I hope you and Meghan will yap just as strong for it as you do for Yale.

  • Spartan 22

    Unlike previous years, when people would predict a meteoric ascension simply due to the school brand, Yale has poured significant resources into the program to finally warrant the “sky’s the limit” attitude-starting with the poaching of Snyder-and those steps have obviously borne fruit. It’s no longer a case of misplaced optimism by its fans. I expect it to break into the M7 sooner than later, and probably settle there.

  • goldushapple

    I didn’t even mention Yale. The OP didn’t even mention Yale. Why single out Yale unless you have some underlying agenda?

    But about Yale. I can see the dean and the growing strength of the student body of SOM forging the way up the ladder, but every time someone mentions the new building, alongside the “new” dean (Snyder’s been at the job for about four years — that’s not exactly new) with “the sky’s the limit!” attitude I’d have enough money to completely pay for a Yale MBA. I’d be debt free upon graduation.

    >>Mark my words

    Yale PR working hard, I see. No other school on P&Q has this obnoxious yapping.

  • MG

    While an interesting anecdote about the prevalence of Wharton on the sell side, I’ll counter with the fact that the buy side folks (Blackrock, Fortress, Citadel, PIMCO, AQR, DFA), who arguably offer more lucrative hedge fund and IM opportunities, prefer to hire out of Chicago. Wharton and Chicago are undoubtedly the top two finance schools in the world, and Wharton has enjoyed a reputational advantage in recent years…that’s without doubt…and despite that reputational advantage, Chicago has more than held its own in the rankings via-a-vis Wharton.

    Have a great evening!

  • boothsucks

    Go Booth! Hopefully this is a sign that USN will finally recognize this great school as top 3.

    Lets start talking HSB!

  • Wharton

    The blip that was Wharton’s “comeback” is gone. But Kellogg may be starting something… Unless its a blip too!

    Stanford’s abandonment of the poets and do gooders in favor of bankers and heartless monsters (i.e. Typical HBS admits) has come home to roost. No one can out-harvard harvard. Stanford should play its own game if it wants to be on top.

  • MeghanRo

    The historical knocks against Yale: small class, non-profit focused, poor work experience, quirky program

    New building, rockstar dean, tons of funding, impressive student statistics…there is literally nothing stopping SOM from being a top 5 program in the next 2-3 years. Mark my words

  • JLoveDontLikeDuke

    I infer from your poor logic that you go to Fuqua and probably contributed to that low average GMAT Statistic. Fuqua isn’t better in any statistic when compared to Yale.

    And before you start throwing MBB placement stats realize, 90% of the students at Yale consulting are going for MBB in New York, not atlanta or whatever satellite office fuqua places at.

    J-Love. Out.

  • Fuqua Fan

    I can respectfully agree with what you’re saying, but the fact still stands that having a 24 pt avg higher GMAT for SOM over Fuqua has an out-sized influence over the .2 higher index score that Fuqua is below SOM. If that gap was closer, Fuqua would kill SOM.

  • WhartonSucks

    Because Wharton has been declining in the past 20 years and it has not abated. Its a dying brand.

  • ReadEm&Weep

    Agreed, Booth has surpassed Wharton in every measure.

  • Full Time

    This year’s class had more Booth people than Columbia and as many as Wharton at my firm (GS/JPM/MS) joining IBD as Associates. Given their smaller class size, Booth seems to b placing better on a per capita basis for sure. I don’t believe Current Applicant has his or her facts straight.

  • MG

    The data don’t lie, right? I agree…this is the best composite ranking. People like to quibble when the ranking doesn’t match their perception of what the ranking should be, which in turn was probably simply formed by previous rankings.

  • Fiorina16

    I would agree completely. Booth kids are second rate in comparison to the best students at HSW. Chicago is pretty cool in the summer though.

  • Current Applicant

    This isn’t true. You can’t just look at placement in a function but also at where that placement (what firm/fund) it is at. Booth doesn’t have the same clout (at least in Finance, as that’s what I know) as Wharton and that’s very apparent. I say this as someone who just interviewed at Booth and may end up going there (if I get accepted in December). In all honesty, even when I look at Booth vs other finance heavy M7s, they aren’t getting the same percentage of people at the most prestigious finance firms. Columbia has a higher percentage of those going into Banking get into GS/JPM/MS/Evercore/Blackstone every year whereas Booth has far more end up at CS and BofA which are undoubtedly lower tier firms. They have the GS/JPM/MS placements but not at the same clip. For Finance anyways, there is no doubt Wharton>Booth, and for me personally I’m not sure there aren’t at least 4 other M7s I’d take over it. And I don’t think there is an argument that Booth dominates Wharton in any other aspect the way Wharton dominates in Finance.

    To me, Wharton is still definitely a tier above Booth. And Booth is relatively equal with the Kellogg, Sloan, and CBS.

  • I Don’t Think

    I’m sorry but not drinking the Booth koolaid. It’s a terrific program, hell any M7 is opening 99% of doors but just think the other is a bit easier through HSW’s doors.

  • Gary

    Lol you sound upset…

  • tj

    I don’t doubt the ranking accurately reflects a composite score of the other rankings, but I think it is laughable Michigan State is ranked higher than USC, Rice, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, and others… I can’t imagine how one would come to that conclusion based on the #s or any other qualitative reasons (other than prior college basketball success).

    Here’s just one comparison (all numbers taken from each school’s respective website):

    (Class of 2017 class profile)
    Avg GMAT: 690
    Avg GPA: 3.4
    Avg WE: 5.3 years
    (Class of 2015 employment)
    Avg Salary: $108,255
    Full-time offers within 90 days of graduation: 93%

    (Class of 2017 class profile)
    Avg GMAT: 666
    Avg GPA: 3.3
    Avg WE: 4 years
    (Class of 2015 employment)
    Median Salary: $100,000
    Employed full-time: 91%

  • MG

    I think it’s convenient that the Wharton and Kellogg kids used to insist that Business Week was the absolute best business school ranking…until they stopped being number one/two every year.

  • MG

    Respectfully disagree, and the facts seem to support that Chicago and Wharton have been neck and neck for nearly a decade.

    Don’t forget, at one time it used to be Harvard, Chicago, Stanford…then everybody else. Chicago suffered to adapt in the late 90’s to the tech boom and that affected their rankings for a few years, which is the same time when Wharton and Kellogg started to really rise in the rankings because they adapted better at that time.

    Now that the noise has settled down, the rankings are pretty accurate. The fact that you grew up during the time in which Wharton was generally ranked higher may cloud your perception of the current (and past) realities. When you look at employer reports for each school and the associated level of prestige and salary, your perception (P/E, hedge funds, banking, tech) simply isn’t consistent with reality. I will give Wharton one thing, though…those kids LOVE to name drop. All of my Wharton friends on Facebook can’t seem to resist injecting some sort of Wharton hashtag into every little thing they do, as if it characterizes who they are…certainly a strong sense of self-promotion and self-worth.

    Key takeaway: Wharton isn’t any more or less elite than Chicago, and the aggregated rankings data along a time-series supports that…with facts.

  • 3423432

    Respectfully disagree. Yale sends 10% into nonprofit with an avg starting salary of 70k. Avg Yale salary + sign on bonus outside of nonprofit is 142k which is right in line with Wharton (1% into nonprofit) and other top programs.

  • Facts Only

    Completely agreed. I also do not understand how P&Q ranking is any better than US News or Financial Times ranking. The other rankings are a complete joke – Stanford at #11 in Economist – this is just stupid, so why does it get any weight at all? P&Q adds in a little weight for crap rankings, therefore its ranking includes some of that ridiculousness. HSW stand above, which US News and Financial Times best reflect. The other rankings aren’t poor because they don’t fit what I think; they’re poor because they don’t reflect reality and are made to sell magazines.

  • SremmLife

    What was your methodology for schools that were only ranked by one or two publications? I’m asking because I think there is no way Neeley, Manderson, or Jindal are better than Baruch.

  • Orange 1

    Look at it as 16 schools in the “top 15” schools that are really national. Think M7 is misleading as no way Dartmouth and Berkeley are below Columbia in quality, but don’t want to get into a p’ing contest. NYU got killed in BW at 24. Make their school at that publication comparable with other rankings and they pretty much tie out with Michigan, UCLA, and Cornell. Not ready to call Yale and Duke ahead of the old scrum that included UCLA/Ross/Virginia/NYU/Yale/Duke/Cornell. These schools are dead even in the same tier.

  • Whats Up

    Curious why FT rankings take out international schools when those numbers are dictated by comparison to the Internationals.

  • 3rd Party

    Interesting to see the Chicago schools’ bump alongside NY/Philly’s drop

  • I Dont Think

    Booth is not on par w/ HSW sorry but you can have all these faux rankings you want but in terms of employer prestige and job opportunities it’s those 3 then everyone else. Granted, 99% of the same jobs are open to all of the M7 but there is 1% reserved for those 3 (primarily top PE shops).

  • Guest339

    Where do you get app volume data for the top 10-15 schools, for that matter?

  • Guest339

    Hey MorseSI, where did you get Yale SOM’s app volume data?


  • Spartan 22

    I don’t mind some rankings changes. It’s the wild swings that annoy me. Yale’s climb, for example, has been steady over time coinciding with their moves to improve the program; it wasn’t some random occurence.

  • goldushapple

    Meh, it’s P&Q. Par for the course.

  • WEST

    It is quite interesting that you feel satisfied with the ranking only when it comes out with the results that already in your perception. And still you wait for it year after year, just to see it again with the same results.!! will it be a ranking then?

  • Spartan 22

    I’d switch Booth and Wharton but other than that no complaints.

  • Fuqua Fan

    Honestly, props to duke for being at 11 which a GMAT avg over 20 points lower than Yale… You can inflate GMAT averages, but you can’t inflate starting salary.

  • lksdjflkjdsf

    Agreed. There may be some noise but this is by far the most accurate methodology. Especially notable is how the M7 fills the top 7. Good job P&Q

  • avivalasvegas

    Couldn’t agree more with these rankings. This ranking accurately represents the Top 10 programs in the US, more so than any other I’ve seen!

  • Daniel Kent

    Hey There, It’s still not too late! You have two rounds left and I’d be happy to chat if you have any questions about the admissions process! daniel[dot]kent[at]yale[dot]edu. Feel free to reach out anytime!

  • BoothforTwo

    and you are surprised by this because ….?? Yale got a brand spanking new building, poached (i’m a booth alum so very biased) literally the best Business school dean money can buy, and they are affiliated with one of the most renowned institutions of higher education in the world….it was only a matter of time before Yale University decided to focus on their MBA program

    While i dont think they’ll ever get Booth, HBS, Stanford level in the rankings, nothing stopping them from being in line with CBS, Kellogg, MIT in my humble opinion

  • MorseSl

    You shouldn’t give up, still 2 more rounds left!

    For my year, the class of ’16 there were 2750 apps, for class ’17 there were 3450. I’ve heard they are are on track for as many as 4000 apps this year, traditionally there are 600-650 acceptances depending. So acceptance rate has gone from 25% to as low as 15-17%

  • Oooooolin

    Olin’s ranks for US News and Forbes should be flipped.

  • teleste

    WUSTL (Olin) is ranked 19 by US News, not 31.
    Vanderbilt (Owen) is ranked 27 by US News, not 39.
    Does this mean that the display of these schools are wrong? Or is the index wrong because P&Q uses a composite score of other rankings to build its own ranking?

  • CornellEngineerGal

    I wish I applied to Yale SOM this year 🙁 My co-worker who goes there said that the applications last year were up 25%, and apparently they are up another 25-30% compared to this time last year…I feel like I probably missed my chance…I feel like everytime I look at a ranking they are climbing