2014 Financial Times’s Global MBA Ranking

A case study professor in action at Harvard Business School

A case study professor in action at Harvard Business School

Harvard Business School topped The Financial Times2014 global MBA ranking for the second year in a row and for the fifth time since the FT began ranking full-time MBA programs in 1999. Stanford Graduate School of Business held on to its second place finish of last year, but Wharton slipped from its third-place perch to fourth, replaced by London Business School. Columbia Business School and INSEAD shared fifth place.

The bigger news in the new ranking, published today (Jan. 26), had to do with other prominent U.S. schools. Yale University’s School of Management jumped four places to tenth in the world, its first appearance among the top 10 in seven years. Only two years ago, The Financial Times had ranked Yale 20th in the world. Yet, curiously, the school’s weighted salaries for alumni fell to $150,880 from $159,370 a year earlier and the average increase over pre-MBA pay also dropped to 114% from 118% in 2013.

The University of Michigan’s Ross School rose seven places to finish 23rd. The University of Virginia’s Darden School rose eight places to finish 27th, while the Kenan-Flagler Business School at the University of North Carolina soared a dozen places to finish 32nd.


The FT said that the University of Minnesota’s Carlson School, removed from its ranking last year when the school declined to share data on students due to state privacy laws, was back in the ranking, finishing 54th. When Carlson was last included in 2012, the school ranked 72nd. The newspaper added that the highest new entrant on the list is the Indian Institute of Management in Bangalore at a rank of 68. IMD also gained seven places to finish 12th from 19th a year earlier.

In general, U.S. schools seem to do especially well this year on the global list. Many U.S. full-time MBA programs gained two or three places, with the University of Washington’s Foster School and Boston University’s leaping 20 places each–the largest single gains among the Top 100 ranked schools (see Winners & Losers in the 2014 Financial Times MBA Ranking). On the other hand, many U.K. schools seemed to suffer setbacks. Manchester Business School plunged 14 places to a rank of 43, while Cranfield fell eight places to 46 and Imperial slipped seven spots to 49th.

All five Canadian business schools on the FT list fared less well, declining on average ten places each from their previous perches in the ranking. York University’s Schulich School plunged 14 places to a rank of 66th, while the University of British Columbia’s Sauder School fell 15 spots to finish 72nd. The University of Alberta School of Business, in 100th place last year, fell completely out of the list this year. The highest ranked Canadian school, the University of Toronto’s Rotman School, finished just outside the Top 50 with a rank of 51, down five places, effectively outperforming all its Canadian rivals. A statistician for the newspaper attributed the decline to comparatively lower salaries reported by alumni.


The world’s highest alumni salaries–three years after graduation and calculated by the FT based on alumni surveys–belonged to Stanford MBAs: $184,566. Harvard Business School and Wharton grads followed with $178,300 and $170,472, respectively. Two other U.S. schools, Columbia and Kellogg, rounded out the top five, with Columbia alumni three years out earning an average $164,180 and Kellogg MBAs at $157,719.

But it was the MBA programs in Asia that delivered the largest increases over pre-MBA salary levels. China’s Shanghai Jiao Tong University’s three-year-out alumni reported chart-topping increases that averaged 166% over what they had earned before getting their degrees. They were followed by Fudan University (163%), CEIBs (156%), and Peking University (151%).

The U.S. school delivering the biggest salary boost? The University of Pittsburgh’s Katz School where alums said they received a 132% rise. Stanford alumni doubled their pre-MBA pay (100%), while Harvard alumni did slightly better at 113%. Still, the surveyed alumni began and ended their MBA studies during one of the worst recessions in history. Yet, as a whole they were able to double their pre-MBA salaries within three years of graduation and at many schools do even better than 100%. Roughly 85% of the respondents left annual salaries averaging $64,000 when they entered an MBA program five years ago. Three years after graduation, the FT said, the average alumnus is a 33-year-old senior manager or higher on a salary of $127,000.

The Financial Times ranking is arguably the most consulted global list of full-time MBA programs, largely because U.S. News does not rank schools outside the U.S. and BusinessWeek separates U.S. and non-U.S. schools in different rankings. But there are significant flaws in the methodology the FT uses to rank programs, including the use of far too many metrics–20 in all–that include measures that have nothing to do with the quality of a school’s MBA offering. It’s also widely acknowledged to favor non-U.S. business schools.

  • Observer

    It is totally a joke….the most absurd part of the criteria is the journal list which is a collection of management journals which are all duplicates of one another.

  • RB

    Why would you live in Chicago over London?

  • Equivocation

    You do realize that most of your statements have a tremendous cultural bias?

    What calibre of students are you refering to? I will grant you that US MBA alums are generally regarded as having higher IQ’s as approximated by GMAT’s. But they are also generally seen as having much lower emotional intelligence.

    In Europe, Asia and even Latin America, some US alums have severe problems because they clash with the local culture. These are major issues for business success (if you have not figured out that in business EQ is more important than IQ you learned precious little in your MBA).

    LBS, IESE and INSEAD are all very respected schools within their area of geographic coverage. There is a reason for that; they reflect the best of the local business culture. I would hope that such a smart top 5 US MBA alum would understand this nuance and show a bit of self-awareness.

  • Equivocation

    I find it curious how the “best and brightest” on this board all seem to put the buggy before the horse. The value of the MBA is in how it can further your career goals in a cost effective way over your entire career.

    Rankings, GMAT’s and even current salaries are indicators of current brand perception and competition for entry. But brand perception is a backwards looking indicator of the success of alumni. Over the long-run, schools advance by selecting good students (not necessarily the highest GMAT’s), forming them and then projecting them into the business world (hopefully over the long-run). If a school does this successfully and consistently over time it will rise and dominate the rankings.

    If you really wanted to rank schools correctly you will have to look at how they are positioning themselves for the long-run. But understandably, most of the young-uns on this board are only concerned about their career prospects directly after completing the MBA. That is another matter altogether…

  • jojo

    Where you operate from also colors the view of alumns of these schools. On the East Coast (Northeast, mid-Atlantic, etc), Duke is a powerhouse name. Berkeley is seen as a UC system school. On West Coast, Berkeley is powerhouse, and Duke maybe not so much (gets lumped in with all the schools from east coast). HSW bucks all regional notions.

  • Junzi Wei

    Poline, I like your style.

    Assuming that you are right, 349 MBB sponsored students filled the 1st to 49th percentile part.

    Let me do another quick maths, associates most likely make 120k, BCG and Bain pays slightly more. Then how can you explain the mean average for INSEAD is matching with M7 schools?

    Don’t tell me that actually there is only 348 MBB sponsored students returned to MBB and actually the highest earner joined a PE, getting 7 digit pay, so that it raise INSEAD’s mean average salary to M7 school level. I will be disappointed for this answer. I am looking for more innovation answers from you. 🙂

  • Schmidt

    Nope. I am not the same person as whoever you were responding to. I think you are actually one of the nitwits.

  • Madison

    Is that maybe because you’re the same person? Some of the commenters on this blog are real nitwits.

  • Truth

    My comment above clearly illustrates that INSEAD is considered one of the largest producers of future millionaires (high net worth millionaires) in the world, and your response is to ask for a billionaire? Your logic process is so messed up I don’t even know where to start. One thing is clear whether in Europe or in the USA, you will mostly likely never get into a top business school with your mental processes running as they do now

  • Schmidt

    I also agree that Duke sucks and I think the person just has nothing more to add to the fact.

  • Schmidt

    It’s funny that you seem to expect school alumni to give you or school something. That is extremely childish. I am a US student, born and raised here and sure, it is unique here and culturally American that alumni tend to donate something, whether it’s $ or not, back to their alma mater.

    Yet, it’s very un-American to expect anything from anyone. As a student, you alone are responsible for jobs, degree, and your life! Therefore, it is just plain wrong to even think about which school to go to, based on the alumni donations. In fact, I would say that’s dangerous and you would be definitely vulnerable to the marketing traps of some US schools.

    Superficially, others may think that you know something they don’t. In fact, the great American horn you think you are blowing should not be even relevant to the ranking or choosing of a school. What truly matters are the caliber of students and faculty and relevance of the MBA program to today’s world of cross-boundary leadership, complexity and globalism in addition to equipping students with solid business foundation.

    If you approach alumni for jobs, surprisingly, most of them would be extremely disengaged. MBA Students generally don’t benefit directly from the donations, other than better facilities. And really, if schools are not ranked by donations of any form, I think you would see Tuck or Yale at the top vs. HBS, Stanford or Wharton.

  • El Meerr

    Oh please…70% of the students in US top schools are US citizens – do you want say that worlds most “high caliber” students are Americans?”High caliber” in this case means only rich parents(to get to and afford Ivy League college) and connections(to get some good internships and jobs post-college)…Entry stats mean very little to me – in US MBA and all that stuff is a huge market and there are a lot of possibilities for funding = which means more people applying and more demand and that’s called “higher selectivity”. At the end you just open YouTube and watch that video where Harvard students do not know the capital of Canada.

  • Martin

    Duke sucks? That’s the best you can do? Hey imbecile, you’re not in grade school anymore.

  • OwenStudent

    I am a student at Owen and I am sorry about my classmate’s behavior. It’s embarrassing completely and I know that my school is nowhere close to the top 10 schools in the US, let alone globally. Sorry again. “poline” is a complete disgrace and a lunatic. Please ignore him. I am sorry on behalf of Owen bschool and our class.

  • Francais

    INSEAD is considered globally and domestically within France as one of the very best business schools. Grande Ecole system is for undergrads. I can tell you this as a French woman.

  • Sensible

    Adam Goldstein, Sir William Hague, Lord Simon of Highbury are some of the immediate, prominent names that come to people’s minds when they hear INSEAD, at least in the UK.

    I don’t go to INSEAD but I applied and got in. I only applied to HBS, Stanford and INSEAD, the best in my opinion. I graduated from Cambridge and am completing my MBA here at Stanford GSB. So I know very well about the caliber of INSEAD’s students, faculty and program.

    Poline, whatever you ramble here doesn’t make any sense. You sound like a truly bitter person who goes to a 60th school in the US, trying to badmouth the top European schools or globally top schools for no other reason than potentially that you couldn’t get into these schools, despite your claim of ridiculous 50-60% admission rates, employment stats, career options etc., while trying to promote some low ranked school out of nowhere in the US to which nobody will even think of applying!

    # of Nobel prizes, endowment size and alumni donation only affect a little when it comes to the rankings of the school or quality of the school. If you were to rank schools by # of Nobel prizes in the field of business education, endowment size and alumni donation, you would see a different table of business schools.

  • Really

    Duke beats Dartmouth? Really?

  • DukeDuck

    Duke sucks. Period. Whether it’s against Berkeley, Yale, Harvard, you name it.

  • MBAstudent

    Maybe 200 years ago, definitely would be Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard… Today, it’s more like: Harvard, MIT, Yale.

  • FocusedMBA

    Despite being clearly very well versed in many things MBA-related, you are not being a strong ambassador to which-ever school you attended or hope to attend, which is unfortunate on many levels. That aside, you are far more apt to find meaningful numbers of supporters amongst the largely HS audience on College Confifdential. You should give it a try, as many on that site also enjoy bashing others’ schools, opinions, and aspirations – just as you do…
    Well good luck to you!

  • poline

    “First of all, I’m not your friend”!!..you will have a great chance to be admitted at INSEAD.

  • poline

    I can see facts hurt someone’s pride 😉

  • poline

    It is indicator that the school would do the best to secure you as its grad a good job! It is an indicator that your school is very well respected and it has very strong alumni who help when needed! and it is will never let you suffer! this reality known by the other schools recent grads! but often, it too late…

  • poline

    name JUST ONE billionaire who is an alumnus of insead mba?! just one!!

  • poline

    I am not an english man, however, there is one fact, the world speak english and the anglo model is the model of the modern civilization. Sorry but francophonic schools adapted the english models of b schools and started offering MBAs! do you know that in fifties and sixties, european schools were looking down to MBA because its product of the new world! and still today, seniors in france regard Master of Management from grande ecole (HEC, ESCP,…) schools much prestigous than insead?! do you know in Fontainebleau (the mother village for insead campus) , most people do not know much about insead except it is just business school, But try to ask them about sorbonne?! … This is fact my friend. and please do not drive the discussion for the whole french culture NO, we are talking merely about business education and MBAs in particular!

  • poline


  • poline

    Just advise: when you engage in a worthy discussion, do not personalize the dialogue! discuss the idea with facts and evidences as a professional. I AM NOT A STUDENT AT OWEN.

  • poline

    I know about him! but HE DID NOT DONATE BIG AS COMPARABLE TO EVEN TOP 50 OR 60 IN US. and that ironic fact is that you do need to dig deep to find a prominent insead alumni, is this what you expect from what so called a “top b school”, that really sad and pathetic.

  • OwenDeepthroats

    I think you belong to the Owen level. Stay there.

  • HBS

    Bottom 10% of HBS students get kicked out and the rest 20% suffer as well here. Story of life!

  • OwenTalks

    Owen acceptance rate is 100%, you can easily understand it. The school is dying for ranking, if of any chance their selectivity comes close to any top 100 US schools they will not hesitate a minute to publish it.

  • NoRespect

    I think we have too many of these Booth-paid marketers are here on poetsandquants, posting jokes. They have no respect for any schools above them..

  • funny

    From all the posts you’ve been posting here, I can see that you are an Owen student and an INSEAD and now a French culture hater. Take it elsewhere man. Nobody cares about your hatred towards the French, whatever your problem is.

  • Nuts?

    Then Darden must be the top 3 bschool in the US?
    Finding jobs on their own could very well be their own choices, depending on geography, industry etc. It is not an indicator of rankings.

  • Pornstar

    Where does your imagination come from?

  • OwenSucksBalls

    There are many but one of them would be Adam Goldstein of Royal Carribean. Why don’t you do some effing research yourself?

  • NoNo

    A simple no would suffice.

  • truth

    would probably be Harvard–>MIT->Cambridge (based on reputation ex. look up “times higher education” data on school rep)

  • Truth

    *based on the # they had produced

  • Truth

    INSEAD was notes as being one of the top 20 schools (in the world) to produce millionaires (look online, this website keeps blocking the link).

  • poline

    another important point: how many insead grads found jobs with the help of the school?! ONLY 50% (of those 50% the 300+ sponsored students). It means that you need to secure your job your own if you INSEAD grad and not sponsored. Compare this to any top american school (roughly 75 to 80%. and in Darden 88% got their jobs by their school), this tells a lot about what can your school provide you of help and support.

  • poline

    True, and they make it historical event. I am focusing on insead, LBS is an anglo culture institute NOT the desperate francophone insead. I bet if INSEAD could launch a similar campaign!

  • poline

    First: The donation for booth is $300m NOT $100m
    Second: those 349 of INSEAD who recieve 100+ salary are ALL sponsored students of MBB. Remember that INSEAD has a partnership with Mckinsey, to give its analysts an MBA for a discounted price, and every single class insead make sure there must be at least 10 MBB sponsored students make it to the dean’s list, (to make the client happy). My concern is that this statistically and smartly portrayed picture gives wrong indication for the school quality because simply most if not all those sponsored students are already high performers and already got excellent education, then the one have the right to question the real value the school adds?!
    and yes, when an alumnus donate $300m for his alma mater, it tells a lot about the culture of that education system which any one want to be part of, you will find help when you need it.

  • truth

    Idan Ofer @ LBS

  • Duke-HBS

    Duke beats Dartmouth in cross admit battles. That counts for more than your opinion.

  • Junzi Wei

    After replying so many of your comments, you still cannot understand what I mean? 🙁 Which one is a better MBA depends on a basket of factors. It is meaningless to say who is better than who by single out any factor.

    If you think donation is the most important one, then Booth is better than HBS since USD100m should be the biggest amount ever a single alumni donated to business school.

    If you think GMAT and selectivity matters, Top four Indian schools all have higher average GMAT and lower selectivity than M7 schools.

    If you think mother University is most important, I agree that Harvard is #1, but #2 and #3 go to Cambridge and Oxford, not Stanford or Wharton.

    European school has lower average GMAT compare to American school is not a prove to say that American schools’ student quality is better. European schools’ student profiles enjoy higher level of diversity, having more working experience.

    If you really want to highlight one single factor to rank MBA, then I think median salary is the best number. For example, assume the response rate for INSEAD’s placement survey is 70% and I rounded the number of student in INSEAD to 1000. You need to pay 349 students more than the median salary (I didn’t have the most updated number but I guess USD 110k is a fair assumption) to create this number. And it is a lot of money and most difficult to fake.

  • Junzi Wei

    What I really want to say is smart leaders vote which is a good business school with real money from their own pockets while most people on this page vote with their mouth water. I really doubt are they capable to get into business school at M7 or LBS/INSEAD/IMD level with their analytical skills presented here.

    I am not yet a partner but I can surely tell you that when I screen CVs from Associate level (esp. for generalist) applicants, I always take a look on where he/she gets his MBA.

  • poline


  • Herman

    partners do not pay any attention to the names of the schools, they merely look for experience in similar industries. for this reason most of the bottom 300 students at INSEAD suffer a lot and end up with jobs of undergraduate and six digit salaries, but such failure stories do not show up in the statistics placement reports.

  • Junzi Wei

    If the mother University of a business school matters more than the MBA program, top 3 MBA should be Harvard -> Cambridge -> Oxford. Chicago? Penn? What’s that?

  • Junzi Wei

    May be you never visited gmatclub forum, I see Wharton MBAs debating with Booth MBAs on who is #3 in U.S. nearly every time a ranking is refreshed

  • Junzi Wei

    Smart partners or MDs from McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan pay as much as what they pay for HBS/Stanford/Wharton MBAs to hire students who finished a not very proper MBA program from LBS, a tier 2, mere extension of University of London. I think they should really see your comments and learn from you. It is obvious that either you have some bias to European schools or those business leaders, making 7-digit salary, are really that stupid, doing wrong choices year after year.

  • Junzi Wei

    If this logic is true, how come you dare to think a business school in Boston would be compared to NYU in New York, LBS in London and HKUST in Hong Kong? Nylonkong rocks 😛

  • Junzi Wei

    If GMAT score and acceptance rate are the two most important criteria to rank a MBA program, world #1 MBA program should be IIMA, #2 could be ISB, #3 could be IIMB and #4 is IIMC.

  • Kellogg

    Bro, no one is as annoying as the Booth boosters. No one!

  • Northwestern

    hahaha that’s why Duke is more selective, ranked higher, has produced more Rhodes and Marshall scholars and has a much larger endowment

  • Drugs?

    Your reading comprehension isn’t the strongest is it? He specified that Duke is stronger at the undergrad level. No one disputes that. Duke is much, much more selective. Duke has a much higher yield, and Duke is ranked much higher on US News’ ranking of undergraduate universities. Duke also decimates Berkeley when it comes to Rhodes and Marshall scholars per capita. All of you internationals have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to undergrad. Refrain from commenting on things you don’t have a clue about.

  • forrest gump

    $155 K is the average pay of PGPX graduates 3 years after graduation , adjusted for PPP.
    This would translate to Rs. 35 Lakhs/ annum approximately ( around Rs 23/ $ in PPP terms). This number may not be as unrealistic as you seem to believe. Average pay on graduation of PGX graduates at IIMA is about Rs. 26 lakhs/ year.

  • Norman

    Well said. I am sorry for “complete joke”. It is not. It is a great university and great school. Yet, as an MBA, I still believe (so far at least) that Tuck is better and well established. But, with all resources available to Yale SOM, I really think it is the future school.

  • YaleAlum

    Norman, I went to Yale SOM and I agree with you that Tuck is a great MBA program with a very strong alumni network. But I disagree with your statement that in the business Yale is “a complete joke”. A couple of reasons for this are:

    1. The core curriculum and electives at Yale SOM have as strong faculty as any top MBA program. I came from private equity with a pretty good idea of finance and M&A and I was surprised with how much I learnt from the core classes. In terms of electives I took classes with James Chanos, Stephen Roach, Bob Shiller, and David Swensen/Dean Takahashi from the Yale Endowment.

    2. Today, in my view, the world is a lot more complex post the 2008 global financial crisis, and we need further training in management than just finance, marketing, accounting, etc. At Yale, thanks to its brand name and history, I was able to take a lot of classes with former Presidents, finance ministers and generals. I also took a couple of good classes at Yale Law School on M&A and private equity transactions. Some of my friends even took classes at the Divnity school and Forestry school. That is one major advantage that Yale has: it is more than a business school… it is an MBA that gives you tools to lead and manage in multiple sectors.

    The US top 20 MBA schools are all great. It depends what the best fit is for each person. If someone wants to focus on marketing, Yale isnt probably the best choice. But if you want, as I did, to work in the private sector and later do politics or public policy, Yale is as good as it gets (it’s like having the joint degree HKS/HBS but in only 2 years).

  • poline

    top thinkers award is not as prestigious as Nobel! it is just a complimentary prize. wake up, Chicago, Harvard, Penn, Columbia, MIT, Stanford, …etc are all HUGE universities, huge endowments, very very rich history, there is really no way any one would think that insead would even come close to them. Owen Graduate School of Management belongs to a top university, and its almuni donated millions of dollars to their school, unlike INSEAD, no one of its students or almuni would donate a penny, let alone millions. of course if any one of them have a million. BTW, Can you name one billionaire produced by insead?!

  • poline

    INSEAD acceptance rate is around 40 to 50%, you can easily understand it. The school is dying for ranking, if of any chance their selectivity come close to any top 20 US schools they will not hesitate a minute to publish it.

  • poline

    I do not bring down any school, I just give them their normal place. and very passionate about the international students not to fall in the trap of european schools, they just look for money thats it.

  • poline

    can you name just one insead alumni who gave his school one million dollar?! NO, why because the culture of giving is NOT european culture, it is inherited and fundamental part in the american culture, look at any top american school, you will see at least many of its alumni gave back loads of money. INSEAd alumni do not help each other at all. I say this based on experience.

  • Lafayette

    so you want to replace US models by the french socialism craziness!

  • Atinuke Haroun

    When its all said and done the Harvard trained “ones” brought the US economy to what it is today so maybe we need to send them to INSEAD for a change………….what difference does it make ..anyways..

  • Rufus

    It’s simply laughable that you place INSEAD and LBS on the same tier as HSW. Thanks for the laugh!!

    I know plenty of finance people in NYC, London, and Hong Kong, who apply to top U.S. schools as well as INSEAD and LBS. Not a single one I know turned down Booth for those. Even for London finance jobs, Booth dominates LBS and has more alums at banks, hedge funds, and asset management firms. INSEAD’s only advantage over Booth is consulting jobs in Europe.

  • Truth

    I actually laughed out loud. Nice to see someone with a sense of humor on here.

  • truth

    I agree with you that one should not discount LBS and INSEAD as great schools (they are), but I would take issue with the claim they are on par with HSW. If I had to rank them I think most people would place them below MIT/Kellog and Booth (or if they are in europe, on par).

  • youwish

    That’s not true about people from HSW not talking about rankings.

    Actually, INSEAD faculty members are second only to HBS, according to recent top thinkers awards, rewarded to top bschool faculty globally.

    And if the endowment of Owen or Owl or Orangutan or Omega is $277M USD as you said, INSEAD beats hands down because INSEAD’s endowment is advertised to be around $300M USD.

    I am sorry…to have crushed your dreams of penetrating out of the Owen shell by trying to downgrade LBS or INSEAD.

  • Heil

    Great education is everywhere, including the US, the UK, France, Canada, Japan and the Swiss.

    The admissions rates of INSEAD and LBS are definitely not 40-50% and I have seen people getting into HBS with 650 GMAT so the average GMAT of 700 matters not. In fact, the far more global composition of their student body makes the GMAT score of 700 average as capable as 715 GMAT score of those from the English-speaking countries. 15 points of GMAT score also statistically mean little.

    You seem to possess an inferiority complex or extreme jealousy towards LBS and INSEAD MBA students.

  • sexonline

    I have personally seen very little top US MBA grads, going to GE. When you look at GE ECLP’s MBA candidates, they all come from third tier US bschools. Even most of their executive leadership comes from non-prestigious backgrounds. I see that you go to Vanderbilt or Georgetown or whatever third or fourth tier school. That shouldn’t justify you to bring down some of European schools to your sorry level.

  • SimplyNo

    First of all, I have a huge doubt on your INSEAD acceptance rate, coming from a Boothie. Second of all, the comments you make are obviously biased. Booth is considered a notch below HSW while LBS and INSEAD are considered at par with the HSW level.

    In fact, Booth and Kellogg have the highest admissions rates of among the second tier group with way over >20%.

    Also, the people who apply to INSEAD tend to be self-selective, with the majority of them speaking three languages. I highly doubt most of the INSEAD applicants apply to Booth. I know first-handedly, many INSEAD applicants do apply to LBS, HBS and Wharton-Lauder. I never really saw or heard any MBA prospectives apply to INSEAD and Booth at the same time. They are very different and in different tiers with the former at the top and the latter a notch below.

  • UDumb

    Sluggish economy started from the US. Are you dumb? With your perfect reasoning, US bschool education is a piece of shiet?

  • Rufus

    INSEAD has a 30% acceptance rate, and for Americans it’s actually quite easy to get into. Very few INSEAD or LBS students can get into M7 schools, and almost all of them would KILL to gain admission to a school such as Booth. European schools are just not comparable to the elite U.S. programs.

    Booth attracts some of the best and the brightest. Its application volume has been surging, and selectivity is insanely high.

  • Matt

    I wonder if this means you go to Wharton or Booth. 😉

  • poline

    there is one fact, good business education is in US. the admission rate of insead and LBS is about 40 to 50 %, and most of them on 700 gmat, it means mostly one thing, they could not get to HBS, Stanford, or wharton..

  • poline

    the people who talk about rankings mostly european schools students, it is very hard to find HBS, Stanford, or wharton talking about ranking. Can you believe the deans of LBS and Insead stay awake to the release of the ranking. They know it is only ranking that give them value! Can you imagine any (I say any) INSEAD or LBS faculty would win a nobel prize in economics?! NO, why because of the place of thier schools, just institutes, no way they are close to the giants of HBS, Wharton, Stanford, or Columbia…can you believe the endowment of Vanderbilt owen is double of INSEAD budget ($277m vs 150 or so), let alone those of the top.

  • poline

    names such as Vanderbilt and Georgetown carry higher weights than INSEAD and LBS globally despite being ranked in 20s or 30s. The head of GE Premier ECLP is graduate of Smeal of PSU, I met him in London, and told that the quality of international students at most of top US schools is far better than those of LBS and INSEAD. again, as an international student, you would be on the safe side getting an MBA from good and reputable US university than any european schools. at least the value of alumni is much bigger, in europe they take the alumni association as networking mean and they include lots of executive education people in it, but when you need it, it is no way to help you. The culture of loyalty to your school is not exist in europe. I know some friends at INSEAD and they always tell me how difficult every year to bring a prominent guest speaker, let alone helping his/her alma mater grads for jobs and career advancement..IT IS CULTURE..and no problem with that, the problem when they think they are on par with top US schools when in fact they are away behind.

  • 2cents

    I find the international discussion here very interesting, although some seem to get a little too personal. At an undergraduate level, the US educational arms race (in terms of cost of education) has for a long time resulted in a “brain-drain” away from other countries towards US academic institutions. The amount of money thrown at US academics compared to their peers world-wide is simply on a different scale, and historically (albeit less so now) has led to significant innovation coming from US higher ed. compared to other countries (don’t get me started on how the US medical industry subsidizes the rest of the world). I wonder how much this relationship translates across the perception of b-schools, be-it corporate culture or global policy towards organization structure and development. There certainly is a place globally for INSEAD and LBS in the world-picture, and had I left the US I would have been very happy at either of those programs. However the undergraduate brand of US universities certainly permeates internationally to graduate programs (I get the sense Columbia and Yale receive a decent boost from this, while schools like Kellogg and Booth are discounted for the same reason in these arenas). There are specific reasons to value most highly ranked institutions more based on personal interests (tech industry might push a student to pick Berkeley over Booth for example), and if working outside of the US is the end goal, LBS and INSEAD certainly have an incredible presence. Anyone who says LBS and INSEAD don’t matter appear to have a US-centric view of MBA value, which is fine if services is the end goal. If the goal is operations-based however, the US-centric view is fairly uninformed…

  • Renault

    I said that Yale and Berkeley beat out Duke when it comes to “global brand.” Yale is clearly the best overall university of the three unless you’re a tech nerd.

  • Hoe

    Even Mr. John Byrne knows that you are full of shiet. Get out

  • OK

    Apparently it is comparable because 1) we are all talking about it 2) the rankings talk about it 3) they themselves see them as peers whether one is ranked a few spots higher or not

  • Huh???

    Berkeley wins Yale for global brand or undergrad reputation? What are you smoking? Yale trumps Berkeley for global brand, undergrad reputation and a whole lot more!

  • Smoking?

    Hold on…Duke is never ever more prestigious than Berkeley, whether it’s business, engineering, science etc. There is hardly any school except “some” of the ivy league schools and Stanford that can stand shoulder to shoulder with Berkeley.

  • Orange1

    Really like your post. Not everyone at the better schools wants to work at MBB, Goldman, Apple or Google. In fact, there are talented people who would be miserable at those places. Why? Their personalities are geared towards smaller enterprises. Nothing wrong with that or picking a school because it is a better fit.

  • Truth

    I think you are taking some huge liberties with the value of schools outside the United States. If one is in the early portion of their career (24-30) an MBA from INSEAD or LBS would be better for them an an MBA from school ranked outside the top 15 in the United States (outside the US). The fact is business as it is today is a GLOBAL enterprise. Ex. Google, Goldman,Facebook,JPM,MBB, all have offices all over the world. And quite honestly it will be easier to get in the door from LBS/INSEAD than it would be from a 15ish+ US school. The fact is getting in the door (of a top company) is the biggest barrier to success, once you’re in what matters is how you perform. Nobody is going to say “i’m sorry we were going to make you CFO but you went to LBS 20 years ago not Cornell….so…can’t do it”.

    PS. I’m an American going to a top 3 MBA program.

  • Ryan S.

    First of all, I’m not your friend, secondly, I’m not even European. Have you thought to consider that some of us live in other parts of the world, and are geographically constrained in regards to which schools we can attend?

    As a result, rankings like the FT rankings, which have a global perspective, flawed or not, are very useful.

  • poline

    My friend: Reality is hard, no body want to look down to any non us school, I am not a us citizen, but all measures, history, economy, technology and science advancement, all these things say US is far better than anywhere else in education, and particularly in management and business. The whole new world of business that you see today from Seattle to NY, to London, to Tokyo, China, Korea…all global business today is in fact modeled on US models, the US economy dominates the whole world, and hence it is pretty normal that the vast majority want to get educated in US, even many students of Oxbridge, Sorbonne, heidelberg, and other top european universities, go for US to study if not for a degree, then at least for an exchange. If someone do not get some education in US, his/her experience is really incomplete however great the education he got. Now you can see why its only two to three top european schools but in US there are tens that all top tier and far better than European schools. Culturally, US is very welcoming to the international students, unlike the european. And as someone said: a top MBA from US serves you inside and outside America, but europeans only for europe, you in fact limit your options by attending a european school.

  • JohnAByrne

    That’s not true at all. The Wall Street Journal got out of the ranking business altogether, deciding not to rank any business schools or MBA programs.

  • Ryan S.

    What an arrogant point of view. This is why people don’t like the United States. To infer that no schools outside of the USA compare to those within it is just insulting.

  • RealMM

    Duke is ranked 7th on US NEWS that largely reflects the general perception.

  • Renault

    I haven’t ever hated on Duke here on P&Q, and never applied to Fuqua. I have taken umbrage with people trying to squeeze the school into the M7-tier (the Duke boosters on here are almost as annoying as the Booth ones), but that’s about it.

    The crazy Yalie I replied to said “global brand,” not “undergrad reputation” — Berkeley wins that fight handily. Also, since you brought up undergrad rep, Dartmouth > Duke, and it’s not even close unless you’re a Southerner.

  • CameronCrazie

    You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. At the undergraduate level, Duke is far, far more prestigious than Berkeley. Everyone in America knows that. It’s not even close. You’ve been hating on Duke ever since they rejected you from their business school. Move on with your life.

  • PRC

    How come you you dare to think that an institute in a village south of paris would be compared to Harvard! you are funny.

  • poline

    “Bullshit” it is obvious this is the language of INSEAD and LBS !

  • Hoe

    Bullshit. LBS and INSEAD do matter…

  • OK

    I am not sure if this is to compliment INSEAD or not, but just to give you a perspective, for HBS, they send more than 1000 mbas to the market and it’s been that way for 100 years so we could say the same I guess.

  • WiseandDEL

    Since most students at the MBA programs want to discover more opportunities, there is ONE undeniable truth: an MBA from good US school will serve you IN and OUT side US. an MBA from top school in Europe will serve you in europe but hardly (if any) in US. So, I guess the wise person who hedges his future by investing in the better choice.

  • comeon

    some of you people seem delusional. If a person wants to work in Europe they are much better going to LBS than a 3rd tier MBA in the united states. Those are just the facts. Ex. many people consider places like MBB,Goldman,JPMorgan,Apple,Facebook,Google to be the top employers (many not all), and you will find overwhelmingly that in the US they do the majority of their hiring from the top 25 (obviously skewed more to the top 15). Once you get outside that range, the opportunities to get into these firms greatly diminish. HOWEVER those same companies who barely hire out of #25+ will hire truckloads out of places like INSEAD and LBS. I’m not saying that these companies are the be all end all, I’m just saying that as proxy measures of “quality” they lean towards INSEAD and LBS being on the level of a top 10 business school (when one wants to work in Europe).

    At the end of the day, the school which is best for YOU will depend on what you want out of your education and what you already bring to the table. Forget the rankings and focus on whether your degree will bring you closer to the company/job you want.I say all this as a former Sloan student (who chose MIT over LBS), so i’m in no way biased toward European Business schools.

  • comeon

    yea….no. I don’t think anyone at HBS is sitting there thinking “I wish I went to Tuck”. In fact I think the only schools people at HBS may be jealous of are places Stanford and MIT (for tech opportunities).

  • Renault

    (LOL at comparing Duke to Berkeley and Yale.)

  • jdjodee

    You’re right. It’s ridiculous.

  • Sami

    Sorry in one point he/she is right, the whole world agree that education in US is better than europe.

  • Norman

    Yale is not a big name in business education. It is however the master of law, but business, it is a complete joke. Dartmouth’s Tuck is the first graduate business school in the world. It was established in 1900, years before Yale stop forcing students to go for sunday’s services! Dartmouth’s Tuck is one of very few academic institutions such Harvard, Wharton and Columbia who defined the map of the business education. People who knows MBA know that Tuck MBA is the cream of the cream and provide the highest quality of each single side of the experience, faculty, students, facilities, LOYAL ALUMNI, very very unique prestige that even harvard a jealous of. Please, if you are really at Yale, respect the great name of your university.

  • poline

    WSJ did rank non US schools for few years, but when they realized none of these schools worth even ranking, the magazine stopped.

  • Ryan S.

    Maybe if any of the American rankings actually looked at schools outside of the United States, the FT rankings wouldn’t be so relevant.. But they don’t.. so we have to.

    Seriously pull your head out of it.

  • RP

    “do not expect the whole world think like you” – what does that mean? I countered his conjecture with fact and food for thought!

    “and |all people agree| that education in america is |miles ahead| of all”??? do not expect the whole world think like you?

  • Simone

    Sorry, for international prospective students, going to US is far safer than falling to the dead europe. he has a point from the scholarship point view..do not expect the whole world think like you, and all people agree that education in america is miles ahead of all.

  • Seriously?

    @InternationalApplicant – Rubbish. As is always the case on these comment threads, many are clearly just frigging naive, delusional and type down-right bull! Who gives a * about your friend and what he/she says. Seriously!

    Ignore all rankings. They’re all rubbish. Conduct your own research. If you had done this you would have very easily established that there is a huge difference between the recruiters ‘3rd, 4th tier US schools’ attract and the recruiters ‘one of those top three in Europe’ attract.

    Your comment about the economy is nonsense. Who caused the economic melt down? How did it come about? Under whose watch?

    Wise up.

    Disclaimer – I chose a ‘top’ European school over two ‘M7s’ because it was a better fit for me.

  • InternationalApplicant

    third or fourth tier US school is away better than any 1, 2, or 3 european school. this is fact. my friend got admitted in a school in Pennsylvania that usually ranked 40 to 50 by US News, and he got a full scholarship, with full support and recognition from lots of multinational companies for the name of his university MBA program. On the other side, he been offered a place at one of those top 3 in europe, no single school of them came close to that 40 or 50 school in america in all aspects of scholarship, quality in teaching, and ironically even in building and facilities. my friend turned down a top european school of that school in Penn. every single employer know that a good MBA is in US NOT in europe. in fact, many see the value of european business education through the economic state mirror! if you have a good education in business, then why the economy is struggling!

  • Paul

    for insead, when a school send more than 1000 mbas to the market for 60 years, it is pretty normal and in fact expected to find a fortune 500 company’s ceo from them, giving that in europe it is just three schools that matter, hence, one would expect hundreds of ceos from those three schools.

  • Amit

    I wonder how IIMA manages to show 155 grand annual compensation. What index do they use adjusting for PPP?

  • vikas

    IIMB participated ..is on 68 rank….not in top 50 though

  • Getout

    It’s funny you mention this. Booth are Kellogg, as far as I know, hand out admissions like crazy. It is not at all competitive enough to get in to Booth and Kellogg, compared to other top 5 schools among M7 or even Yale or Tuck. On the other hand, LBS and INSEAD have been the top European schools for years, particularly INSEAD since the 60s. In fact, I came across an article that they produce Fortune Global 500 leaders globally more than any other school except HBS. I don’t go to European schools but you sound 100% biased.

  • YouBSer

    Sounds like somebody bitter from a third tier US school, trying hard to bring down the top European schools 😉

  • Yalie

    Tuck is part of a crappy, no-name university (or should I say college). How do you expect it to compete with massive global brands like Berkeley, Duke and Yale?

  • Dutch Ducre

    you’re right, good point

  • TheJudge

    FT and the Economist – I am impressed if anyone takes their rankings seriously. To have any European School above M7 schools and top 5 US such as Kellogg and Booth is ludicrous. Almost every person who gets into Kellogg and Booth gets into LBS IESE INSEAD. European schools do not have the same calibre of students as top 7 US schools do. Please look at pure entry stats. I am also skeptical of a British publication making a judgement of US schools when the authors have demonstrated inherent bias towards their own – look at where LBS fares. LBS history demonstrates it is a tier 2 global insitution – not many years ago it was absolutely nothing – a mere extension of University of London and not a proper MBA program. I know this post may hurt many people but unfortunately the status quo does remain – any one vying for an MBA considers the following schools – HBS OR Stanford Wharton Booth Kellogg Columbia Tuck Sloan and then explores Insead LBS or Duke Darden e.t.c.

  • Orange1

    Dutch, take it with a grain of salt. They have us (myself included) like trained lab animals where we wait for these things with baited breath and then immediately react.

  • Dutch Ducre

    Makes no sense, how are Duke, Haas and NYU ahead of Dartmouth. LSE is no longer prestigious either, they should be well below their spot.

  • Dutch Ducre

    Another ranking that’s all over the place and doesn’t account for cost of living differences in different regions. Cool. Worthless

  • GeorgeYY

    Guys, what is going on for Dartmouth?! why it is down this way?!

  • InternationalApplicant

    In fact, I see it this way, an MBA is worth doing it in US than in Europe. Most of the top 20 or 30 schools in US are much higher in quality and give better outcomes than all European schools including the top ones. I visited many american and european schools, there is a wide gap in quality, culture, alumni loyalty, endowments. Just the optimism feeling in US school is much higher than in Europe. I really see no reason why someone would go to Europe for an MBA thats is completely an american product and very well established there. Even, the international students placements for the third tier US schools are much better than any european programs.

  • JohnAByrne

    This may reflect a much stronger economic recovery in the U.S. than in Europe where many of the schools were down, some significantly. I’ll be poring over the numbers today and add far more analysis to the story.

  • Hmmm

    There must be some weird recalibration going on for some of the second tier US b schools. Rankings two years ago for a few of them: UNC was 56th now 33rd, Darden was 38th now 27, Yale was 20th now 10th, As these schools really ascending or is/was the ranking methodology just really whacky?

  • rajendra

    Good show HBS, Stanford and UCI. IIMA ( Ashish Nanda) what’s wrong with you, why dont you have specific monthly plan and achieve the results, less talk/interviews, more metric driven work? IIMB and IIMC are you there anywhere?