H-1B Visa Cap Making It More Difficult For International MBAs To Land U.S. Jobs

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Part one of a series on the U.S. job market for international MBAs

Part one of a series on the U.S. job market for international MBAs

No question, Sudhanshu Shekhar was an all-star business student at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. He was on the dean’s list. He was elected partner in the school’s consulting club, selected as vice president of the operations management club, and held membership in four other student groups. He won a Best Buy marketing strategy challenge and presented his recommendations to the firm’s C-suite. He leveraged a summer internship with Booz & Company into a post-graduation job with Pricewaterhouse Coopers after PwC acquired Booz and turned it into Strategy&.

The 28-year-old Shekhar had come to America from India to obtain an MBA from a top school, secure a high-level consulting job, and make an impact on global business practices. “If you work in India you can only influence India. That’s not what I came here for,” says Shekhar. “I came here for gaining the influence and the opportunity to maybe influence the strategy of the whole world.”

Until this spring, it appeared he was well on his way. But now, Shekhar, who graduated from Kellogg with an MBA last year, is about to leave the U.S. in frustration, the victim of a controversial, lottery-based work-visa program that puts international MBAs in the same category as foreign mid-level IT workers accused of taking jobs from Americans.

Kellogg MBA Sudhanshu Shekhar

Kellogg MBA Sudhanshu Shekhar

Like many international students who come to a U.S. school for an MBA degree, he had hoped to land a job that would allow him to stay and work in the U.S. But Shekhar did not win the H-1B visa lottery, that this year saw 233,000 applications for only 85,000 of the “specialty occupation” visas for foreign nationals with bachelor’s degrees or higher. Instead, Shekhar will be leaving for Amsterdam to start work there for Strategy& as soon as his Dutch work permit comes through.

‘I SHOULD ADD VALUE TO THE ECONOMY OF THE U.S.’

“It’s been frustrating, I will be honest,” he concedes.“I learned so much in the U.S. I should add value to the economy of the U.S.” His student work visa that allows 12 months of employment during or after schooling has just expired. “I can only stay in the U.S. for 60 days and then I cannot even stay, I have to go out. It’s two months of no work, which is not great.”

American business schools don’t tend to highlight potential visa problems for international MBAs, but applicants should be diligent enough to do the research on the odds, Shekhar says. “If anybody comes to the U.S. thinking it’s a 100% surety that they’re going to get an H-1B, they’re stupid and they shouldn’t have been admitted in the first place. You can get unlucky, and you have to prepare for that.”

Friends of Shekhar’s who had graduated from Harvard Business School and the University of Chicago Booth School of Business also failed to obtain the H-1B, he says. “None of those guys ever planned on not getting it, and some of them are in a bigger soup than I am,” Shekhar says.

It’s difficult to say what percentage of international students who want to work and live in the U.S. with their MBAs are unable to do so. The careers officer for a prominent business school, declining to provide an estimate, says only it is “a considerable percentage.” The recent GMAC report of MBA employers suggests it is certainly a significant problem.

ALMOST HALF OF COMPANIES THAT HIRE MBAS IN THE U.S. SAY NO TO FOREIGN MBAS

Only 28% of the employers who plan to hire MBAs in the U.S. this year expect to hire international candidates, according to a study released last month by the Graduate Management Admission Council (GMAC). Another 25% said they have no objections to foreign hires but had no specific plans to make an employment offer to anyone from outside the U.S. Worse, 47% of the companies hiring MBAs this year in the U.S. said flatly they would not employ international graduates.

Many of the companies that refuse to even consider foreign-born MBAs told GMAC that international hires cost too much, require time-consuming paperwork and documentation, face a limited supply of visas, and often pose language barriers and an additional investment of time in the hiring process. Security clearances and cultural differences were also reasons cited by companies for their refusal to hire international MBAs.

  • Itsme

    The fact that you are frustrated clearly demonstrates that your opinion in this regard is not of importance to anyone, least of all your government. 2 years hence, things haven’t changed. Good luck with your “stay out of my country” bullshit. Good luck building your country with your 60k salaries. Immigrants are forcing you to get your acts together and get off your butt and work hard. It’s easy being the privileged sort. Just 240 million people in that huge land and still complaining. Who’s the incompetent one here? Clearly you, despite belonging to a developed country with vast resources.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Stay tuned if you believe the H-1B will continue indefinitely. The tipping point has been reached. The Trump and Brexit phenomena were not flukes, they were inevitable.

  • idk

    Awesome! There are 6.5 million workers in IT industry and approximately 20% are indian. You have been to about a million people and checked their houses! You should be awarded Presidential Medal of Freedom for this!

    Your reasoning is similar to saying all americans are terrorists because Timothy McVeigh is a terrorist and he is an american!

  • idk

    Looks like FastForwardAfter job was taken up by an immigrant, who was more efficient and hard working than him. Well grapes are sour buddy.
    Let me ask you this, you are targeting H1B as a whole and asking about innovator’s on work visa, what are your educational qualification and patents? Do you have a link for the numerous awards and patents you have filed so that less educated immigrants can go through it and learn something?
    If you dont have education or a job, do you know some part of your social security and medicare actually comes from legal and ILLEGAL immigrants? probably you dont know this as you are busy doing nothing!

    Nothing against you and i do support couple of points made by other users, yes the program is taken advantage off and needs to be reviewed for sure but saying H1B’s dont do anything for the economy is pure BS. you can satisfy yourself by saying whatever you want, the visa will still be there. And it will be there even if you become president of this country!

  • Malc

    O-1 visa IS a kind of work visa. Family-based visas are predicated on US-citizen family members, and can be traced back to a work visa granted to an original working immigrant.

  • Malc

    None? Below is a partial list of people who got their start in the US on foreigner worker visas, or otherwise worked in the US as non-US citizens. The list would be much longer had the US had a more relaxed foreign worker and immigration policy during the last 60 years.

    Alexander Graham Bell (inventor, telephone) (UK citizen, worked in USA from 1871 until 1882, when he was granted US citizenship)

    Louis B. Mayer (founder, MGM) (Russian, worked in USA from 1904 until 1912, when he obtained US citizenship)

    Albert Einstein (scientist) (German, worked in USA from 1933, after denied visa to work in UK)

    Elon Musk (Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX, SolarCity) (South African, worked in USA from 1995, which gave him pathway to US citizenship, granted in 2002)

    James Gosling (father of Java language) (working in USA from 1984-present, still a Canadian citizen)

    Stewart Butterfield (founder, Flickr, Slack) (working in USA from 2005-present, still a Canadian citizen)

    Satya Nadella (CEO, Microsoft)

    Sundar Pichai (CEO, Google)

    Renaud Laplanche (founder, Lending Club) (working in USA since 1995, still a French citizen)

    Apoorva Mehta (founder, Instacart) (working in USA since 2008, still Canadian citizen)

    Dheeraj Pandey (founder, Nutanix) (Indian citizen, working in USA since 1998)

    James Cameron (director) (Canadian, working in USA since 1974, still a Canadian citizen)

    Leonard Cohen (singer, writer) (Canadian, worked in USA from 1967 until his death in 2016)

    David Rakoff (journalist) (Canadian, worked in USA from 1983-2002 on visa, then green card, then granted US citizenship)

    Ali Velshi (chief business correspondent, CNBC)

    William Shatner (actor) (working in USA since 1957)

    Dan Ackroyd (actor) (Canadian, working in USA since 1973, later granted US citizenship)

    Michael J Fox (actor) (Canadian, working in USA since 1979, later granted US citizenship)

    Justin Bieber (singer) (Canadian, working in USA since 2008)

    Another major contribution of foreigner work visas is that they allow talented workers to bring their children over, in fact children are part of the visa programs. The following individuals immigrated to the US under their parents foreigner work visa programs:

    Sergey Brin (founder, Google)
    Larry Page (founder, Google)
    Peter Thiel (founder, Paypal)
    Pierre Omidyar (founder, Ebay)
    Jerry Yang (founder, Yahoo) (not clear if mother actually had visa)
    James Park (founder, Fitbit)
    Tony Xu (founder, DoorDash)
    Safra Catz (CEO, Oracle)

  • FastForwardAfter

    Google it:

    India’s latest Socioeconomic and Caste Census (SECC) paints a stark picture of widespread rural poverty and deprivation.

    Of the 300 million households surveyed, an overwhelming majority (73%) live in villages. Of this rural population, less than 5% earn enough to pay taxes, only 2.5% own a 4-wheeler vehicle and less than 10% have salaried jobs.
    Not only does rural India have miserable statistics on income and asset ownership, its literacy rates are low. Only 3.5% of students graduate and around 35.7% of residents can’t read or write.
    It comes as no surprise that the bulk of the Indian population is still overwhelmingly poor.

  • ulian

    what do you mean by toilet?!

  • FastForwardAfter

    With more of these super human Indians in India, any explanation on why India is still a third world toilet?

  • RRK850

    Without INDIANS america would stayed in 1920s, Majority of american workers are not qualified and lack basic knowledge. corporations and corporate america forced to hire smart indians to grow. Idiots forget that globalization is the main driver for america to be superpower, world economy is in dollar, america is the main beneficiary of globalization. This is the price for leading the world stage in economy, politics, military, and culturally, you have to be open for all, belong to all, and accept all. Otherwise, america will be the first and the most hit by isolation, because someone will step in and fill the power vacuum, China maybe or russia?

  • FastForwardAfter

    I can find no evidence that Jonathan Ive was on any kind of work visa, and you have presented no evidence. He may have been the recipient of a family based visa, or an O-1 visa for exceptional individuals.
    Please take another year searching for a single instance of a great immigrant produced by a company importing a guest worker.

    The reason you can’t find any, is because the very fundamental nature of the guest worker program. Guest workers are hired to do as they are told, not to be great or to innovate.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Nope. I am a genius. I knew Trump would win. The theft of American jobs could not continue indefinitely. The tipping point has been reached. There will be a backlash against Indian H-1Bs and all guest workers, the likes of which you have never seen.

    In 2018, Democrats are defending 10 seats in Trump states. There will be a Republican super majority in the senate, as well as the house and the presidency.

    Study in the U.S. should be for the intrinsic value of the education, not for a backdoor immigration pathway.

  • Akshay

    You are an idiot!

  • Kent

    Dear FastForwardAfter – Just because people can’t name one doesn’t mean that they are not there.

    Work Visas produced no great immigrants? Simply not true. Look at Jonathan Ive, who, as a British National most certainly was on a work visa when he was working for Apple. He might not have been on the H1-B (there’s an L visa available for internal transfer after working abroad for a year), but certainly in the early days of Apple’s recovery would not qualify for the “extraordinary ability” O-1 visa, so would have to be on an H-1B or something similar. It’s not easy to find out because it’s not some accomplishment (like getting Knighted, which Jony Ive did) that people post online.

    There are countless top consultants/lawyers/bankers who joined US firms on an H-1B, and over time later became green card holders. These people advise CEO’s how to run businesses, so that’s pretty great (though you are welcome to disagree whether that counts as “great”). Without that H-1B they wouldn’t have been able to stay in the USA in the first place. To say they should apply for the O-1 is simply not fair – generally they need to win a Nobel Prize or an Olympic Gold. But maybe they needed to benefit from the best training the USA had to offer in order to get to that place.

    That’s why it’s slightly flawed to only limit it to “work visas”. Jerry Yang came as a student and certainly would not have started Yahoo! with his partner David Filo if they had not met at Stanford. So he’s great because of the resources America gave him. Elon Musk, another example of a South African/Canadian becoming a great American, etc.

    But back to your question – best answer would be Sir Jonathan Ive. Steve Jobs thought he was great, so that’s “great” enough for me.

    (Yes I know it’s a year old, but I just saw this post, and as a previous H-1B holder myself, I thought I should respond. I’m not arguing that this visa hasn’t been exploited, but there are a fair amount of people who really are great and have contributed immensely, but it might just not make the papers until much later (and they may have become “citizens” by then. I don’t consider myself “great”, but I definitely know people who I look up to who were on that visa.)

  • FastForwardAfter

    No, I said, and meant citizens.

  • abc

    U.S. citizens? You mean immigrants.

  • Azar A

    It should be illegal for greedy US traitor companies to hire OPT and H1B visa foreigners over Americans. Right now American IT works are starving while the leeches from overseas are taking advantage of the US work visa programs. Available jobs should be well publicized and US citizens should be hired first even if some training has to be provided. Everybody knows that these desperate people from overseas have false credentials and degrees and experience in more than half of the applications and that no US department is available at the present time to verify the authenticity of foreign degrees and experience as well as resumes of students seeking to work on OPT.

  • Peter

    boohoo hire american citizens first…tuff tittie bro stay in india and get a jobi your great land.

  • MSD

    This is ridiculous. I agree with people who have called for an elimination of H1B Visa, which is a big scam. I have interacted with pathetic morons in the IT Department, who are culturally backward, patriar hical and have no creative talents at all, who commit fraud to stay in US and abuse the system. Here is a novel idea, if you graduate from a top 25 schools you automatically get a Green Card. The rest can go bye-bye. I hope this young man takes solace in the fact that we have lost and the Dutch have gained a very valuable asset.

  • Prasad

    Trump is not against the people coming out of IVY league or creamy schools…he has made it explicitly clear…that he want them to stay in the US after their degrees. So I think you’ve a undue fear.

  • bwanamia

    I asked you for a definition, not an example. What does Marcellus Wallace look like?

    Moreover, it looks as though Sundar’s been assigned to serve as caretaker of the search engine monopoly while all of Google’s new lines of business are siloed off into the other Alphabet subs. How much “talent” does that caretaker role require? I say we deport Sundar forthwith.

  • Justified721

    Talent like Sundar Pichai and countless others that came to the States and contributed tremendously after being granted work visas.

  • bwanamia

    I have no idea what you mean by talent and I suspect you don’t either.

    However, one reasonably believes that Narendra Modi, if he were an American, would be advocating for a Trump/Sessions/Coulter immigration policy.

  • Justified721

    The fact that 24% of Americans actually think Trump would make a good president serves as the perfect example for why we NEED to look to other countries for additional talent.

  • bwanamia

    I guess us untalented, uninnovative Amurricans will just have to learn our lesson the hard way.

    Trump/Coulter 2016!

  • Justified721

    Bingo, JackNJill. Limiting H1B visas would only hurt the U.S. economy. Right now we have a track record of attracting top international talent to contribute to our economy. In many ways that has been the life-blood of U.S. innovation. If Trump had his way he’d run this nation to the ground.

  • bwanamia

    I’d take the Asian over the Mexican any day, though my preference is to deport both. Viva Donald Trump and Ann Coulter!!! D-Day is January 20, 2017!!!

  • Rajesh

    For some companies VISA is not a issue, the Nationality is. Especially people from Asian countries are still considered backward people by some of the US firms.

    I did 7 months internship with German Auto Manufacture in USA while I was doing mu MS in USA. My Manager and Mentor preferred me to hire me for full time job, but senior executive seemed to have obligation to hire an American National or Permanent Resident.

    But the twist here it is, my other counterpart who was a Mexican Citizen and worked along side me as a Intern in the same team got Sponsored for H1-VISA which I came to find out 3 months later after internship got over, though my Manager and Mentor recommended me to Senior Executive and Hiring Team.

    I was a given a pretext by Hiring team that they don’t Sponsor Visas when I asked them.

    It was later after graduation I secured a Job is some other company which sponsored me H1 visa.

  • Underwater

    Built by immigrants when there was nothing here. Now all these Indian workers want to do is leech off of America’s success. If America fell they would run home.

  • Underwater

    That’s pure BS. I work in IT. Every Indian worker I have met have empty apartments because they send their money back to India. Don’t give me this BS they help the local economy. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

  • Underwater

    They want CHEAP talent. The want people they can abuse. I’ve spoke to many Indian IT workers. Sometimes they’re so scared of getting sent back to India that they’ll do anything for their employer. It’s nothing short of slavery.

  • Underwater

    Do you think if the situation were reversed India would allow US workers in? I highly doubt it. The US should stop these job thieves from coming to the US. I have worked for several companies where I see rooms of Indian workers. It sickens me. Go walk around Disney or Microsoft or Facebook at lunchtime. It looks like downtown New Delhi.

  • JackinTheBox

    Sigh. Good luck.

  • Jmg2016

    Satya Nadella, the CEO of the world’s second largest company, and a Booth MBA.

  • FastForwardAfter

    First of all, I asked for innovations from H-1B visa recipients, not immigrants. ‘Cloud’ is an old concept. Storing info on central servers in not new. Calling it ‘cloud’ is the only thing new.

    THer is an O-1 visa for importing extraordinary individuals. The H-1B can be scrapped. After 25 years, all you can come up with is a CEO recycling an old concept. Pathetic.

  • JackinTheBox

    I replied to your post the moment I saw it 😉 It didn’t take me 5 days as you assumed. You ask me noteworthy contributions from immigrants and I have given you few examples but you don’t accept them citing a silly reason such as “Microsoft would not have a CEO right now?” How can anyone debate with a person who reasons like this ?

    You need to understand that innovation alone is not sufficient. Spending significant time there after and taking it in the right direction is what makes a product successful. Contribution is always a team work and not individual alone. You may reach out to some of the MSFT members who worked with him to actually understand the contributions of Satya N before he became a CEO. He spent 22 years at Microsoft and I am sure he must have contributed something.

    What if Vinod Khosla wanted to start Sun Microsystems after H1B program was introduced ? He needs H11B visa to start working for his own company. Don’t you think so ?

    What are the visa options for immigrants to innovate without a work visa ? They enter US on F1 visa and then they I presume would require a work visa any way to start a new company or innovate ? What are the other visa options ?

    Again, there was an immigrant working for Google, who re-wrote the algorithm for Google ads from scratch. He was on H1B visa too. Is that not a worthy contribution to you ?

    H1B visa may not be the best visa option like you say but there is no other option right now either. We all know US needs an immigration reform. The current one sucks!

    Cheers!

  • FastForwardAfter

    Nope, not one of these came here on a work visa. Keep searching.

    Work visas do not bring innovators.

  • Your Father…

    Albert Einstein?
    Enrico Fermi?
    Nikola Tesla?

  • Sarah

    “HE CAN WORK, SHE CAN’T: WHAT NOW?” Little sexist?

  • Sanir

    Unless MBA too is added to the list skills that US needs for post education employment, the universities should start stating it so, in their brochures, lest the international students are NOT mis-led. Today they are being mis-led. Especially when the same education happen in other countries with international exposure at half the cost.

  • FastForwardAfter

    THis is what you come up with after 5 days of searching for a contribution of a person who was on the H-1B program.

    I suppose you think that if Satya never got an H-1B visa, Microsoft would not have a CEO right now? That is riduculous!

    As you noted, Vinod Khosla was never on an H-1B so he does not count.

    I hope your research has proved to you that the H-1B does not benefit the U.S. at all. Or are you going to continue to disbelieve all evidence and your own research?

  • FastForwardAfter

    Just as I thought. You can come up with no innivations by any H-1B.

  • JackinTheBox

    For example, Satya Nadella, current CEO of Microsoft worked on H1B before he became a US citizen and he did contribute a lot to MSFT in cloud computing and will contribute going forward. My point is lot of immigrants work on H1B first and then become citizens. Lot of immigrants like him contributed a lot to US. One more example is Sun Micro Systems co-founder Vinod Khosla, though there was no H1B back when he worked I am sure there must have been some similar visa to let immigrants work in USA 🙂

  • 2cents

    I mean… How do you not see that we’re talking about entirely different things. Thought I would just let this go but honestly I’m just amazed….

  • Drummer1122

    Funny.

    I know Americans here in Europe b**ching about how tough it is to get a EU work visa if you’re not the citizen of a EU country and blah blah blah.

    I always told them: you getting a work VISA here is at least 5 times easier than me getting a work VISA in your country.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Agreed. Here is the last word:
    You can’t possibly be looking at the bigger picture if you believe that replacing the native citizen workforce can continue indefinitely with no effects down the road.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Yes, ignore common sense and deductive reasoning and instead listen to the things billionaires need in order for them to make more money off the backs of the rest of the citizenry. Serfdom, here we come.

    Is that what they teach in business schools? It must be.

  • 2cents

    Well you can take that one up with Marc Andreessen, I’ll take his word on this one

  • 2cents

    Nah I just can look at a bigger picture and not get bogged down in details. You win buddy, congrats. skilled foreign labor is evil in any form and we shouldn’t go about finding constrictive ways to fix visa systems. Kudos. Now get your last word in and lets be done with it.

  • FastForwardAfter

    They are decreasing costs in payroll and benefits. But in the long run, the company is actually losing profits, which leads to more outsourcing until the company splits balance sheets into two companies, with all the debt and lower profit departments on one and reintroduce the performing departments to wall street to get investors.

    Sometimes they add abstract ideas that only they seem to master. Things like Six-sigma and Agile and whatever is the latest scam buzzword.

    As soon as the investors pump money into this new performing great looking balance sheet and market cap, the freshly hired B-school MBA graduate notices that they can keep more profits by replacing the personnel section of the balance sheet with H-1B and L-1 imports. And the march goes on to oblivion of the company.

    IBM used to be a powerhouse computer company but they started doing this and now IBM is just another pathetic consulting company peddling cheap coders from India. Sad.

  • FastForwardAfter

    There is no coding shortage.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Yes, but they have an H-4 wife sitting at home.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Wage parity laws are easily misused. If you are allowed to replace all your U.S. workers with foreign replaements, the new average wages are automatically lower.

    Also, if a company was not allowed to displace the local workers, those skilled workers would be mor precious to you, and they could command wage increases. Currently, there are not eve cpost of living increases in IT jobs anymore. This automatically translates to a wage reduction due to lowered buying power. Surely a business school graduate can see this.

    Or are you engaging in selective analysis?

  • 2cents

    Wow… Not ignoring it at all, but you certainly have a skill for selective reading. The fault is in replacing U.S. workers with lower cost Indian workers. Wage pariety laws with h1b would fix that. I actually didn’t know the story for half the companies you listed, so thank you for that.

  • FastForwardAfter

    So only irriplaceable Americans should be allowed to work? Would you have the same feeling if corporations subcontracted bus drivers and replaced every American bus driver with an imported busdriver that the current local busdriver had to train?

    Would you then tell the laid off busdriver population that they deserved it because “f someone who barely speaks english can replace you, what are you bringing to the table?”

    Computer coding is not much more complicated than bus driving. So what?

  • FastForwardAfter

    By ignoring the phenomenon as evidenced by the Disney, California Edison, Harley Davidson, Bank of America, Suntrust, Lockheed Martin and hundreds more corporations partaking in replacing their local workforce with imported foreigners, you are on the side of “don’t believe your lying eyes”.

  • 2cents

    is there proof for that? Frankly I just don’t have good evidence to reject h1b as long as we added a wage pariety clause to prevent the Disney mishap. My default is to side with openness, yours appears to be defaulted the other way, but you haven’t presented any evidence either, just annecdotes. Probably just need to admit this bias difference and move on from this debate.

  • FastForwardAfter

    These jobs remain open because they toss all qualified resumes from citizens. Then they can claim they need to import workers. It is a total scam. I challenge you to formulate a bogus resume exactly fitting the requirements and see if anyone contacts you. You will wait in vane.

  • 2cents

    Ok… I just said above I couldn’t find anyone. I think you’re mistaking outliers with value add. Given the dirth of specific skill sets and how long those jobs remain open, I’m stretched to believe there isn’t a value add through h1b. I do agree it is serially abused and should be changed, but you sound deliriously focused on a specific point my friend without an idea of the bigger picture.

  • Singh

    there is a simple solution to this problem. Didn’t these students fall in love with US citizen during MBA ?

  • FastForwardAfter

    Just admit it. You tried to google it and came up empty.

    There are no notable contributions by H-1B workers. That visa category can be scrapped completely and a random immigration selection would more likely bring in people like Einstein and Serge Brin.

    Work visas bring in only drones who can memorize well and follow instructions. No innovators come in on this visa. None.

  • 2cents

    Nitpicking myself but I read this as an article about how MBA graduates find legal status to work in the U.S., specifically focusing on h1b yes. I think we agree that h1b visa reform is necessary and the program right now is flawed. I don’t feel like spending more than two minutes googling a “famous” name but yes they don’t pop up immediately. it’s not like that proves the inverse. I haven’t seen evidence that these individual don’t add value.

  • FastForwardAfter

    This article is about the H-1B and my contention is that the H-1B and any work visa is unnecessary. I believe only the foreigner’s family and the U.S. government should be involved.

    After 27 years of the H-1B there is not one famous name you can mention. You still hang on to famous immigrants in general, none of whom came on a work visa.

    Work visas bring people to do as they are told, which explains why corporations want this. No innovators immigrate this way. The percentage of innovators in the immigrant population is lowered by the use of work visas. Evidence and logic shows this.

    Stop grabbing the accomplishments of non-H-1B immigrants and attaching those accomplishments to H-1B immigrants. There must be even ONE H-1B star you can name by name! So far, you have failed miserably to do this.

  • avivalasvegas

    Finally, you got one thing right. You are ordinary.

  • 2cents

    pretty much any doctorate degree is a specific skill set that doesn’t fit into your definition of an education game as those credentials also hone specific skills. I agree the MBA is a catch all with less specific benefit, but the rest of it sounds like you think wealth is a fixed quantity. I would love for every great success to find their way here.

  • 2cents

    I think broadly speaking we might be addressing somewhat different points. I’m including h1b as a subset of all immigration avenues and as something that needs reform. Having said that, immigrant founded companies generated $52 billion in San Francisco alone in 2005 (first study I could find came from the Kauffman foundation and Duke). I want the best engineers here for example and I don’t really care where they came from as long as they add value.

  • FastForwardAfter

    The employer has a payment to SS and the state for each employee except OPT. It is not just the employee deduction. Do you know anything about payroll systems?

  • FastForwardAfter

    What shred of evidence have you provided of a single instance where a person on a work visa had added any significant value. Non-work visa related immigration is good. Work visas are very bad.

    Show some evidence. Name names!

  • Anon

    There is always a learning curve when you join a new company or industry. Most MBA students are career switchers. There are always a ton of things you need to learn about the a industry and company when you are new. This is what I meant by training. I have several years working in corporate, so I do know what its like.

    Moreover, your argument that they save on SS and taxes is flawed. Its the employee who saves that money since those are not deducted from a paycheck.

  • bwanamia

    Well, that is what I’m saying. There is no value to the international experience. If it’s “hilariously wrong”, you should explain why it’s wrong and why it’s hilariously wrong. Strikes me as though it’s wrong because it doesn’t reflect your particular interests.

  • bwanamia

    Like Ann Coulter, you mean?

  • bwanamia

    I’m not the one boasting that I’m excessively well-qualified to work in the US or that I’m paragon of “talent”. I’m just an ordinary guy with ordinary abilities who played the game according to the stated rules.

  • avivalasvegas

    You should pursue it. It would be fun to see your countrymen mock you 🙂

  • avivalasvegas

    Not really. But I do know that your line of thought is common that all top tier schools. I saw it in action at mine. Didn’t work out so well for my classmates either. I really hope you come back on these forums and post about the day you are humbled. Its not a matter of if…but when.

  • avivalasvegas

    You’re wrong – I’ve spoken English all my life and it is the only language I speak. One might even say that I have more of a grasp of the language than you do.

    Fortunately for the rest of us, you don’t get to determine who gets a Visa and who doesn’t. So enjoy your seat on the sidelines and watch the developed world welcome and embrace these remarkable individuals.

  • bwanamia

    I don’t have to say that I attended an M7. Or an M6, if there were such a thing. Know what I mean?

  • bwanamia

    “More intense quant backgrounds”. That is a scary prospect. All those guys who can solve partial differential equations in their heads. Last time I checked, apart from classes that relate to derivative instruments, there’s no more than a bit of adding and subtracting going on. Maybe taking a percentage on rare occasions.

  • bwanamia

    Those are just examples. You know that, right? As for being passionate about your industry, it’s meaningless. People say they’re passionate about X in their application essays and then they say they’re passionate about Y when some job interviewer asks “What are you passionate about?” I’m passionate about keeping my goddamn passions to myself. You should feel embarrassed to say those words.

    OK, I’ll admit that I’m passionate about pursuing an immigration moratorium in 2017 after Mr. Obama leaves the stage and the cancellation of all work visas and residency permits. I know, you’ll say I’m afraid. I’ll say that it is what it is.

  • 2cents

    I agree that the MBA is the wrong degree to focus on (though not about your elite message). I also agree with your the sentiment of your message above – and as we did over the last two centuries I encourage the brightest minds to always come here – maybe the h1b is the wrong mechanism, but pure isolation only harms our countries prospects in the future. From US steel and the steam engine to flight, rocketry and computers – foreign minds have helped make this country what it is.

  • bwanamia

    I am xenophobic in the sense that I believe the US Gov’t should always, without exception, defend and advance the interests of US citizens before it considers the interests of foreigners. That’s what governments are for. Even if there is only the shadow of a hypothetical possibility that the H1B program would damage the employment prospects of Americans, H1B should be ended.

  • bwanamia

    I am saying that MBA degrees don’t signal extraordinary talent. It’s just ordinary people following the rules of a game that rations available opportunities and excludes those who fail to obtain suitable credentials. Those credentials have no meaning outside the game, but take note that the game reflects the American social contract and was established to provide fair access to opportunity for Americans who sought — in President Obama’s words — “a fair shot”. Call it the education game. That game was not established for the purpose of accommodating educated elites from other countries. We have our own elites and if we are going to create more, we would rather create them from our own population. Some are created by affirmative action and it is hoped that in the future more will be created. The principle of affirmative action, in fact, recognizes that the process of obtaining credentials in pursuit of better employment is no more than a kind of game.

    MBA programs are engines of inequality. There is limited popular support for them. Using them as a path to obtaining work permits and US residency further erodes that support.

  • 2cents

    you keep telling yourself that. Putting evidence in front of you and it looks like bawanaman above appears to be the definition of the backfire effect. Take a look into research on how educated immigrants add/subtract value in an economy and how company location can be crucial to its success. We’re a country built of immigrants

  • bwanamia

    M7 means Columbia? Heh. You’ve never “schooled” in India? Well, you’re some kinda non-native English speaker.

    Look, people do all sorts of things in the face of hardship. Everyone deserves a medal for something. That doesn’t entitle them to work visas and residency permits.

  • FastForwardAfter

    The problem can be fixed by scrapping the H-1B visa alltogether.

  • FastForwardAfter

    I’m also not xenophobic and know that people elect representatives to look out for the interests of the people that elected them. Laws that specifically state and allow corporations to bypass and replace the electorate should be scrapped.

  • 2cents

    I’m an American from a family originally from Europe that was here before this was a country. I’m just not xenophobic and understands rules can be imperfect and bettered. Get off your high horse.

  • avivalasvegas

    By your own admission, you’re an immigrant who was fortunate enough to be admitted to the US without the need to prove yourself academically or professionally. Now that you’re a “citizen” you’ve turned on your immigrant kin under the guise of this protectionist anti-corporate stance. Like this stance, you wreak of hypocrisy and your fellow citizens have already picked up on it.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Isn’t the MBA already trained by the university? Are the MBA students performing work or are they just being trained by the company? Any work they are performing is an advantage to the company. You will see when you get out there.

  • FastForwardAfter

    They should go there then. Why do they stay if they do not want to hire US workers?

    There must be a reason why they stay. What is the reason?

  • FastForwardAfter

    I agree.

    If businesses do not want to hire American workers, then they should take the company abroad. What difference does it make to the laid off or bypassed worker if the company stays here of go.

    It is only valuable to U.S. citizens for the company to be here if the company is going to hire the citizens.

  • FastForwardAfter

    When the MBA foreign student applied for the F-1 visa, they stated that they intended to leave after their studies.

    Why are they surprised that they might have to keep their word?

  • FastForwardAfter

    The Disney workers were as valuable as the H-1b workers.
    Very few corporations would collapse if one of their workers left, including you. No one is irreplaceable.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Yes, I am a citizen who has compassion for the livelihood of my fellow citizens.

    Fortunately, the tipping point is about to be reached where the sleeping giant is awakening to put the interests of citizens ahead of corporate profits. Like you, I am also hopeful, but at the other side of the coin.

  • FastForwardAfter

    However, the American is at an unfair cost disadvantage.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Not at all. They should recruit foreign students for the education they offer, not as an immigration conduit. The immigration benefit is not the university’s to offer. Now do you understand?

  • FastForwardAfter

    The problem with the H-1B visa is that there are jobs reserved for the H-1B. Like at Disney, the laid off Americans were not allowed to compete for those positions that they were already doing.

    This is OK with you?

  • McDs_Front_Office

    Being forced to compete against people who came from more intense quant backgrounds than myself made me a better person and was a beneficial part of my MBA experience from GMAT prep to graduation.
    I understand the inherent fear we get when we realize we’re operating in a massive global talent pool, but if an applicant doesn’t see this as a positive thing, then they don’t have the type of perspective that would allow them to thrive in an MBA program or add value to a publically-traded multinational company.

  • BostonTW

    Actually they are but slowly. The H-1B employers say anything to get business and then fail to deliver, mainly because of incompetence coupled with lack of communication skills.

  • David__D

    Just to be clear, BoomRoom is setting you up for some let down. Although the two people on here shouting the loudest are nuts, there are PLENTY of them in the US. You will absolutely, without a doubt, suffer significant bigotry with the name Mustafa. You’re better off on the West Coast and somewhat in the NE that the south, but will experience this anywhere in the US. I’m not saying don’t come, just be prepared for it and don’t let it discourage you from accomplishing your goals.

  • David__D

    You and your buddy are basically saying that business schools shouldn’t bring in international applicants/admits, that there is no value to international experience. It’s hilariously wrong.

  • David__D

    Finally someone who understands business. You’re absolutely correct. These other dudes apparently think that if American companies can’t hire cheaper workers they’ll just hire expensive American workers which of course doesn’t make sense. Yes supply and demand works. They’ll go to the supply of cheap workers. They will leave or outsource to compete globally.

  • David__D

    So businesses are actually increasing costs by outsourcing IT and just somehow haven’t figured it out?

  • BostonTW

    I’ve worked with H-1Bs and they lack communication skills that increase costs because of inefficiencies. They also lack an ethical code but simply say yes to everything, leading to unmet goals and objectives. The H-1B program has been highjacked by several Indian-based firms who apply for visas and fill them with lower paid workers who receive no benefits to which Americans are afforded under US laws. Thus, Americans lose their jobs to contractors who become indentured servants.

  • Anon

    Agree with your thoughts.

    A viable solution would be to increase H1B quota for master’s students but keep the general quota the same or reduced.

    If businesses can’t bring cheaper labor to the US they will simply try to outsource more jobs to foreign countries. If they can’t cut costs by outsourcing, they become less competitive compared to global firms. With many large companies dependent on foreign markets for a portion of their revenue, these companies will be affected. Moreover, cost conscious US consumers will look to buy foreign products that are cheaper. This will have a direct impact on the American economy.

  • Anon

    Don’t be so ignorant. Does it make sense for a company to hire and train an MBA student if they only intend on keeping him for 12 months. They loose a lot more in hiring and training costs than what they would save on SS and unemployment taxes.

    I have been reading your posts, while I don’t agree with JackNJill’s views, you don’t seem to understand the full effect of your views.

  • David__D

    Same response as to FastForward: if someone who barely speaks english can replace you, what are you bringing to the table?

    That being said, if H1-B’s are primarily being used for outsourcing (I had no clue the numbers were as bad as reported here), I agree it should be scuttled and “skilled worker” programs should be put in it’s place. Specifically, we should not be sending away people with graduate degrees.

  • David__D

    If you have been in an industry for 20 years and can easily train a person who’s native language is not english to replace you: you clearly aren’t that valuable. I’m sorry but it’s the truth, I’m not the cruel one, the world is cruel. It’s not like businesses just now decided to start making profit. They always been willing to screw people for money. Knowing this, anyone who doesn’t have some significant value to add should be honing their skill set until they do. I was laid off in January, have had multiple full time and multiple contract offers since and have worked every week I wanted to work after the first two. It’s all a matter of what skill set you have.

  • avivalasvegas

    Oh absolutely. My MBA doesn’t add anything to my substance. That was already there. It did, however, give me access to a powerful network, loads of exposure and some useful training and tons of credibility.

    The proof is in the pudding – I do really well for myself by any measure, work in the industry I’m passionate about and have based my career in and live in the city I love. Moreover, the fortune 30 company I work for continues to increase hiring YoY and is increasingly citing the degree is a requirement for management positions.

    Do you have an MBA or were you rejected from the programs you applied to?

  • avivalasvegas

    Yes, I did. My M7 school kinda requires it. Incidentally, my verbal score was much higher than my quant, and I’ve never schooled in India. I didn’t know about the IITs or their impossible admission odds till my Indian b school classmates told me about them.

    Unlike you, I have alot of respect for them and what they’ve overcome to get to the States. The challenges they face, many raised by folks like yourself, are minuscule in comparison. They’ll win. You’ll lose. That’s the very nature of progress

  • avivalasvegas

    A few citizens demand many things, many of which are not in their nation’s best interests. Corporations do the same. It doesn’t take much to see what kind of “citizen” you are. I’m not worried about the future of this country because I can see change happening. Soon STEM students will have enhanced OPT periods and STEM PhD students will have a fast track to residency. This great country will welcome those who it has trained so well and bitterness and fear like yours will continue to be marginalized.

  • BostonTW

    It’s not that easy. Those Tata International employees in India always repeat questions (they can’t answer a close ended question, try it sometime) and can’t think abstractly or deviate from the script, wasting your and my valuable time and costing more in the long run.

  • BostonTW

    Yes, I have a buddy IT professional who is over 50 who trained his outsourced replacements from Guatemala at HP (barely literate in English), who get paid 66 percent less than what he and his American colleagues were earning, and then Carly Fiorina fired them. He is still unemployed and both angry and depressed. Then she bought herself a jet and ended up getting fired herself and now wants to be POTUS. The H-1B program has been the principal tool to outsource American jobs. It is evil.

  • FastForwardAfter

    How so?

  • FastForwardAfter

    Nonsense.

    Disney and many companies required the 50 year old IT Professionals to train the younger and cheaper H-1B replacement. If person A is training person B, who is the trained and who is the untrained?

    Who is the job being handed to? The experienced and trained 50 year old, or the inexperienced and untrained H-1B?

    The 50 year old can’t be ‘useless’ if they are the ones conducting the training. They obviously had to be adapting all along to be in those jobs.

    You are cruel and heartless.

  • FastForwardAfter

    You may be surprised to know that some of these nations still exist on reservation land all across the North American land mass. Is it one of these nations you want to join and be a part of?

    If so, the H-1B visa is not the mechanism to join those nations, because the H-1B is for the country USA, created in 1776.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Nevertheless, to the victor goes the spoils. Europeans conquered and claimed the land and decided on borders and who and how to become a citizen and also set up immigration rules to benefit those citizens.

    If you want to try to move to the U.S. outside of immigration, then be my guest in trying to conquer and claim land. Good luck with that.

  • FastForwardAfter

    And why citizens are demanding that the government scrap the H-1B and other work visas.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Work visas produced NO great immigrants. H-1B and OPT can be scrapped.

    All immigration should be limited to what the country can absorb at the time without negatively affecting the current residents.

    It was FishMe’s discredited argument that great imigrants such as Serge Brin came on work visas. All I said was that none came on work visas. You have no proof of any successful people who came on work visas as of yet, so it is that argument that holds no water. I merely successfully disproved that argument.

    Pay attention avi.

  • avivalasvegas

    I am doing exactly what I claimed to want to do after business school on my essays and it is related to what I did before business school. I don’t work in any of those careers and get paid very well and love my job. I am passionate about my industry. You’re wrong bwanamia and the more you spew your nonsense, the more apparent your fear becomes.

  • avivalasvegas

    Agreed. Which is why our government, led by the son of an international student, is doing just that.

  • avivalasvegas

    Agreed as well and this has been proposed by Britain

  • 2cents

    Are you saying that mba graduates specifically aren’t needed to be insourced? Or that foreigners in general will somehow divide a fixed pie. The later has proven false, but I can understand the former. I would agree that h1b visas should be tied to salary parody to avoid it as a cost cutting measure.

  • 2cents

    There were multiple Native American nations divided by territory with chieftain style leadership. In effect without a western definition, these were nations. There just weren’t boarders in the current form under a central constitution, which is a European construct. Empires existed long before that.

  • avivalasvegas

    As pointed out in a separate thread, the H1B program was created in 1990. Other immigration mechanisms existed before and new one’s will come in the years ahead. Your argument holds no water.

  • 2cents

    Kind of thought this board was a hair above the xenophobic, but glad to know we still are in a crowd that won’t let facts get in the way of beliefs – particularly the “they took our jobs” crowd. To be fair, there are a ton of jobs I would in source before any generic Mba post-school workers for an MBB, IB, tech managers and product/brand managers. Start with actual professional shortages (medical and coding for example). h1b reform will favor mba’s last over the logical (special skilled professionals) and the emotional (family, eager-improverished).

  • avivalasvegas

    Yes, I did. My M7 school kinda requires it. Incidentally, my verbal score was much higher than my quant, and I’ve never schooled in India. I didn’t know about the IITs or their impossible admission odds till my Indian b school classmates told me about them.

    Unlike you, I have alot of respect for them and what they’ve overcome to get to the States. The challenges they face, many raised by folks like yourself, are minuscule in comparison. They’ll win. You’ll lose. That’s the very nature of progress.

  • David__D

    Have you ever actually met 50 year old out of work “IT Professional”? For the most part they are useless. Never having worked in IT, just someone who screwed around with computers as a teenager/college student, I know more than many.

    Most of those people lost their jobs because they became irrelevant and didn’t take the time to learn any new skills. Prime example: my customers can find qualified candidates for basic Test Engineering positions who know LabVIEW (graphical programming language). Any “IT Professional” with half a brain could spend a few weeks learning new programming languages and find a job, but most would rather complain that a job isn’t being handed to them and is going to those damn foreigners.

    The days of making a decent salary for knowing how to work a computer (or run a machine on the manufacturing floor) are long gone, adapt and survive or don’t and die off. It’s that simple.

  • BostonTW

    Corporate America’s obsession with cheap labor and H1-Bs has gutted the middle class and led to massive layoffs of older, highly paid professionals. Off-shore outsourcing to India in particular has destroyed an entire class of highly trained Americans. There is no shortage of STEM trained Americans but Indians (and Guatemalans, Mexicans and other third world citizens) will work for pennies on the dollar, to America’s detriment. I have zero sympathy for this kid. And no, America is not a country of immigrants, but rather a country of settlers and colonists and former slaves who built this nation at least 150 years before the founding of America and another 125 years before Ellis Island. Only since 1982 has this country granted amnesty to millions of law breakers and caused a subsequent wave of illegal aliens, followed by H1-Bs under the guise of a shortage of skilled labor. Yes, we need global talent but not at American workers’ expense.

  • bwanamia

    I have to wonder whether you’ve actually taken the GMAT or what your verbal score was. I suppose nobody really expects foreigners to function in English. An insufficient supply of “MBA talent” reflects merely hypothetical excess demand. There is no inconsistency between a hypothetical and the actuality of MBA hiring at an all time high. Are you one of those hypothetical geniuses from IIT?

  • McDs_Front_Office

    This conversation involving anti-globalization American MBA applicants is quite ironic:)

  • FastForwardAfter

    You guess wrong. It is widespread and growing.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Nonsense!

    A quick check of google says this:

    “There are occupations which foreigners may not hold in Thailand or restricted occupations for foreigners.”

    Would you have a problem if the U.S. restricted foreign workers to teaching foreign language or as foreign language journalists like Thiaiand?

  • BoomRoom

    Don’t judge the whole country on behalf of the nuts in here, they are a bitter, frustrated minority who no one cares about. Most of the country is extremely progressive.

  • BoomRoom

    Yes because call center employees in the US have executive authority and don’t ever use a script. What have you been smoking? And if you are not happy with your bank’s service take your business elsewhere, who cares?

  • JackNJill

    Only true on OPT and only applicable because the candidate doesn’t enjoy SS or unemployment benefits either.

  • KingKong

    There is absolutely no restrictionon hiring Americans in most Asian countries or an upper ceiling either. As long as they are willing to move and live there. Indians, Chinese and Mexicans are willing to move and make the necessary changes. There are no Asian visa lotteries. Go check on the scores of Americans and Europeans who moved to Thailand and other countries to teach English and live a comfortable life.

  • KingKong

    I’m going to guess its a few delusional scared nuts there too, just like we have ’em here.

  • bwanamia

    Passion for management consulting, a marketing gig at P&G, ibanking, or PE? Nonsense. That is the safe path.

  • bwanamia

    You have a fetish for certain elite schools in the US, as you perceive them from outside, and you insist that you have a right to reside in the US based on your fetish for American education and your subtle understanding of the rankings. But that’s the charitable interpretation. More likely you’re arrogant, smug and entitled at the expense of the very people among whom you’d like to live and work. Think about it this way: we have enough elites in the US. We don’t have to import our business elites from India or wherever else H1Bs come from.

  • FastForwardAfter

    It is the duty of a government to protect it’s citizens.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Nope. No central government nor borders existed back then. You are ignorant of history.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Economic impact to the visa recipient, not to the persons displaced by the H-1B. The U.S. displaced would have been paying the taxes but for the displacement. Ask the Disney employees. You look that up.

  • FastForwardAfter

    But rotating through a stream of OPT students is more lucrative than hiring a U.S. citizen. This gives an OPT student an unfair advantage to a foot in the door.

  • JackNJill

    Once you move from OPT which is temporary the candidate does pay the same taxes as an American citizen, look it up. And you cannot keep a candidate in OPT forever either so unless you think that firms are staffed significantly by folks on OPT perpetually. And the only reason they don’t pay SS and unemployment during OPT is because they don’t enjoy either of those benefits as a non citizen.

  • KingKong

    No I mean income and education has an economic impact on contribution to the society, look it up.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Also, the employer dosn’t have to pay SS and unemployment taxes on this employee. Why hire a citizen with an incentive like this!

  • FastForwardAfter

    WRONG!

    You wrote: “The H1B process already ensures that the firms exhausts all possibilities of finding talents locally before they hire non-citizens. ”

    There is no such requirement to seek a U.S. worker at all. In fact, hiring a foreign student on OPT allows companies to skip paying Unemployment insurance and SS, making the foreign student cheaper than a U.S. worker.

  • KingLongLong

    So they can finally be forced into hiring FastForwardAfter. Good job!

  • FastForwardAfter

    Scrap the H-1B. Let people self sponsor under the O-1 visa. Corporations should have no place in immigration decisions.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Next you will be saying children should be awarded to the family most capable of raising them, irrespective of who gave birth to them.

    Income should determine happiness, according to you.

  • FastForwardAfter

    None came on a work visa. Not one. Work visas such as H-1B can be scrapped.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Actually, England is talking like that lately.

  • HashtagHashtag

    It was a country that was usurped from the rightful owners by force.if you think otherwise that’s your ignorance talking.

  • JackNJill

    Your thought process betrays the fact that you don’t understand or appreciate the importance of education. I’m going to attribute that to your lack of having gained any actual quality education. Clearly you are bitter at those who are able to achieve more and believe that instead of working harder you can level the playing field by forcing archaic laws like moratoriums. If you are unable to see the difference between Stanford and the rest of the universities clearly you don’t even begin to understand higher education and for that you have my sympathies. Face it the firms prefer someone more talented over someone less talented and using nationality to force them into making a poor choice is sad.

  • JackNJill

    I can’t stop accusing of you being afraid because fear is so apparent in all your talks of protectionism and moratoriums. The H1B process already ensures that the firms exhausts all possibilities of finding talents locally before they hire non-citizens. The issue that everyone has this random aspect of lottery after all necessary steps have been taken. Some people have passions, maybe you are too bitter and scared of competition to worry about following anything besides the safe path, but there are many who are like this. Grow up.

  • JackNJill

    Get a job, firm applies for your work permit, all checks out, no lottery nonsense… boom done

  • randomhookup

    I’ve advised foreign students in an MBA program before and the odds are definitely stacked against them for getting immediate sponsorship to work in the US. It’s hard for many of them to learn that they are the “exceptions” that they may have heard of.

    I still think the L1 route is the best option and gives one the most flexibility for returning to the US in the near term. As a recruiter for a high tech employer, I have been involved in sponsoring those far more often than an H1B.

  • randomhookup

    OPT: Optional Practical Training is the 12 (or sometimes 18) month period that a recent graduate can work in the US in his/her field. STEM grads get an additional 17 months on top of that.

    One still has to have an employer willing to employ you and it should be in your field of study. Most of the grads referenced in the article started working in the US on their OPT and then applied for an H1B at the appropriate time.

  • randomhookup

    Yes, the majority of professionals enter the US on an H1B visa, including doctors, nurses, technical talent, even executive chefs and diamond cutters. There aren’t even quotas within the visas for certain skills — everyone is treated almost the same.

  • booyakasha

    So , just to help us understand better what is the route to finding a work permit and a job in the UK, for say a graduate from LBS.

  • FastForwardAfter

    This country does not belong to Native Americans. It was not a country until it was declared a country with borders, a government and laws. Land does not equal country. It is you who needs to read history.

  • DeeFan

    Yes, we should have more H1-B visas – that way the likes of Zuckerberg et al will have a cheaper labor pool. And if a job gets taken by a foreigner to the detriment of an American, then that is an issue.

    The Disney (and other companies) debacle should be a lesson as to how powerful corporations can manage to manipulate the system. And screw their employees.

    Excuse me, I have to call my bank about an issue. I will be put through to someone in India who claims his name is Sean and speaks with an accent I can’t understand – and who reads from a script and has no authority.

  • FastForwardAfter

    1. Americans already face restrictions in workig abroad. India and China do not have a reciprocal visa where Americans can replace their workers en-masse.

    2. People are not goods.

  • bwanamia

    As far as I’m concerned, HBS is just a school in Boston, Wharton’s in a really bad part of Philadelphia and Stanford’s in Palo Alto. There are other universities in other parts of the United States. So what? Your fetish for “world-class universities” is a disease and it doesn’t persuade me in the least that you are entitled to work in the United States. And I am not persuaded that you have much more value in a business role than a garden variety US high school grad. You’re arrogant, smug and entitled at the expense of the very people among whom you would like to work. Learn some humility.

  • bwanamia

    Stop accusing me of being afraid. The issue is assuring that the H1B program doesn’t cut Americans off from American opportunities, which should be reserved for Americans. It’s purely a question of devising a policy that serves the interests of the American people.

    As for people “pursuing their passions”, that’s just cheap application essay talk. Doesn’t mean a thing. Grow up.

  • JackNJill

    So you want them to stop pursuing their passions and careers in countries of their choice because people like you are scared of a little competition? The greatest economies and societies are not build on the back of fear.

  • JackNJill

    But you don’t see England talking about inane concepts like visa moratoriums which you brandy about with an ounce of understanding of that would impact the domestic US economy. And this remarkable talent you speak of, do you believe getting admitted into a world-class university and being hired by a world-class firm doesn’t qualify as talent. Or would you rather reserve these opportunities for domestic students who otherwise wouldn’t stand a chance against open competition. What you need is to open your eyes and see the incredible value the qualified immigrants like the ones graduating from top b-schools add to the American society and economy.

  • bwanamia

    Those poor guys would have to come home. So what? Also, world markets won’t stop doing business with American firms because we’re the buyer of last resort.

  • bwanamia

    This argument is childish and offensive when you put the word country in scare quotes. We’re neither more nor less a nation of immigrants than England. England’s original population were Celts, who were subsequently displaced by Anglo-Saxons (Germanic tribes), Vikings, and Normans (french-speaking Vikings). It was only after England stopped heeding the wisdom of Enoch Powell that it found itself awash in “immigrants”. What the US needs at this point, speaking of the few people who are remarkable enough to qualify for permanent residence, is another Enoch Powell.

  • JackNJill

    And what will happen if Americans overseas are also faced with moratoriums in those countries and what if world markets stopped doing business with American firms?

  • JackNJill

    This country was built by immigrants, this ‘country’ actually belongs to Native Americans. Try reading history for a change. Even these US citizens you talk about are second or third generation immigrants.

  • fishME-I’ll-FISHu

    Father of America Rockets, NASA, Internet, google, whatsupp.. all are immigrants..

  • FastForwardAfter

    The fix is a moratorium on work visas. Then we will see higher work participation and higher salaries for workers. Supply and demand rules are universal.

  • FastForwardAfter

    Nope. This country was made great mainly by U.S. citizens. Very few people on work visas made any notable contributions.

    Can you name some of the notable contributions made by visa workers. There are none.

  • Dr_Ads

    It’s not just a problem in the US.
    PwC head office used to go along to London Business School once a year and hire 30% of the class. But because the Tier 1 Highly-Skilled Migrant Visa scheme ended – which allowed talented post-grads to work for in the country for two years – they don’t bother. They just hire IIM grads for a quarter of the salaries they used to offer in London instead.

  • 2cents

    Nitpicking on word choice rather than answering the question, but there is significant brain-pull at the university level and with creative types I really just mean funded-startup founders and c-suite

  • avivalasvegas

    Let me make it clear, I can’t stand the Indian IT company business model. It creates a very harsh, competitive environment. Kinda like Uber and the black taxis in London. But I don’t think they’re a problem that can’t be fixed by giving any listed company a maximum annual quota of Visas that is linked to US salaries paid out.

    But comparing an IT guy to a M7 MBA grad is just silly. International students at top tier schools had to work a hell of a lot harder to get where they have and are incredibly valuable to any economy, not just the US.

  • avivalasvegas

    You think you have it bad? I had a classmate named Usama once. . .

  • avivalasvegas

    Most international students don’t come to the US to work as teachers or creative talent. They know better.

  • AP

    I have heard that if you don’t get a H1-B visa, you can work on what’s called a ‘OTP.’ Can someone sheld light on this?

  • Mr. Grassroot

    I disagree. They should only be given to Indian IT males. We need them to do cheap IT taks so our Tech industry can strive and remain competitive. A foreign HSW grad can easily be replaced by an all American HSW grad (you’ll be surprised how many struggle to get a job before graduation).

  • 2cents

    This is a process I know nothing about – but do medical professionals, researchers, programmers and creative talent fall into the same visa pool as well? If so, then the argument for reform that helps mba students loses steam as the mba is purely a broad form degree while the others address specific needs in the U.S. That are in short supply.

  • avivalasvegas

    That hasn’t happened yet. MBA hiring is at an all time high. You’re not making much sense here bwanamia

  • JackNJill

    So basically deny employers access to talent because of ‘protectionism’.I think then you should also ban imports into the US so that everything can be produced domestically & eventually the world will also operate without the US market or talent. Everything will be fine.

  • JackNJill

    Tl; Dr not going to happen

  • JackNJill

    You should take a good hard look at what your plan B is knowing that you could be in a situation similar to Shekhar. If you can answer that question with a fact based answer, not a “I’ll figure it out”, go ahead and apply. Also remember where you land up is critical, if Shekhar had gone to some lower Ranked university he’d have much worse to contend with, at least his pedigree gets a compassionate employer.

  • bwanamia

    Fine. It would be our loss.

  • bwanamia

    No, that’s not what I said. The MBA is no more than a credential that trumps lesser credentials. And there’s no real substance to it. If at some point there isn’t a sufficient supply of “MBA talent”, employers will find a way to tap into the supply of experienced hires and brighter undergraduates. Everything will be fine.

  • randomhookup

    The B-Schools are just one constituent in this process and they hold very little power. Businesses are in a better position, but they end up looking as if they are taking advantage of “cheaper immigrants” if they advocate too hard for more visas.

    Broad reform would be a difficult aim to achieve.

  • mustafa

    Indeed, but it is a dowside for American brand and maybe economy.
    speaking of politicans, they tend to pass laws that create popularity in short-term, specially when it comes to this kind of subject. And this this problem should be adressed by BSCHOOLS and stakeholders of it. Though, im spectical,about the impact they will create

  • randomhookup

    The immigration system is very much a political danger zone. The current process is too wound up in emotions and in the opposite aims of bringing in educated & experienced talent with allowing people to bring in their family members. Neither side in the debate has had a clear political mandate to bring in change.

    There are options. I believe the L-1 option (go work for a global company overseas and work to get transferred into the US after a year) is a good way to make it work. I’ve brought in 3 L-1 hires this year and we discussed several others as a way to get known talent experienced with our products. The visa lottery is another option (not open to all nationalities, unfortunately) and I know several who have won Green Cards that way.

  • mustafa

    well, that made me question my application process. And i want to rise anothar question. Do you guys think this has anything to do with nationalisim? I mean, do people still get offended if someone llike me named mustafa get a good job in USA.

  • Mr. Prestige

    H1B visas should only be conceeded to HYP/HSW grads, the others should enter a wider lottery.

  • avivalasvegas

    In the absence of any better alternative as a means to evaluate the potential of applicants, I’ll chose theirs.

  • Deepak Tiwari

    We need this to be fixed or else we will keep shipping talented people out of US where they will start companies that compete with us. It is a loss for the US for sure.

  • 2cents

    Agreed on h1b visa reform. Don’t agree that schools are the right metric necessarily to judge value but not sure what the better alternative is. There is no top five, and by trying to create an exclusive class there you are eliminating your own alma mater to many, so not sure why you go there. i don’t think the above example is a true picture of value add to the U.S. (Shekhar sounds great btw so I don’t mean to insult). I’m more upset by programming and startup visa denial than a strategy& consultant.

  • DontAskDontTell

    The issue isn’t about H1b workers and losers at Edison and Disney losing their jobs. . The issue is the jokers in power mixing students who come here , spend money to study here or get paid to study here and a bunch of losers/parasites in Indian IT companies working at lower wages. ( I would go so far as to say they even mix legal immigration with the mexican illegal border crossing into one hodge podge called immigration).
    Yes end the H1b Program. F$#$ the Indian IT companies.
    But like ANY OTHER CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD (literally the only developed country that doesn’t have one), create a path to immigration for students who are studying in your own country.
    If a Stanford or UT Austin or U Michigan Education isn’t enough to gain a work permit then what is.
    Also , You have a working model in front of you. – The Universities themselves. There is no “LIMIT” on the no. of student visas. Most top schools are pure meritocracies. Does that mean American’s haven’t been able to get educated? NO. If anything it has raised the standards to education and research and development and made the schools more inclusive , global agents of innovation.

  • Grumpy_McGrumps

    We need global talent. Our ability to attract the brightest minds from all over the world is what has made this country great. It would be foolish to abandon a winning strategy.

  • JackNJill

    You do realize that the US needs the global talent much more than the talent pool requires the US. These folks coming out of ivy league schools are the cream of the talent pool. If they choose to stay out of the US, it’s the average American who’ll stand more to lose. These folks add value – pay taxes, attract investments, add jobs, raise the level of the society. Sure petty thinking like “Stay out of the US” sounds good but have you imagined the long-term impact. And b-schools don’t admit students basis “credentials”, they admit on basis of proven expertise and experience. P

  • avivalasvegas

    You believe that top tier business schools admit candidates based on credentials and certifications alone?
    My understanding is that they are admitted based on claims of a proven track record of doing incredible things and demonstrating incredible potential in their respective markets. This is often supported by metrics and recommendations and is especially true of the top 5 programs.

  • bwanamia

    Mere credentials, not talent. Stay out of the US.

  • kingkong

    Maybe it’s time for the US immigration system to begin economic analysis of the applicants for the work visa, so even if their intention is to keep a check on how many they issue, they are still issuing it to folks who pay higher taxes, spend more locally (thus benefiting the domestic economy) & are generally a positive impact on the American society. Rather than a system which equates skilled and unskilled applicants in an absolute random luck of draw.

  • JackNJill

    End H1B and what not employee non-US folks at all? That’s your brilliant solution? You know who’d suffer more, here’s a clue, not the international MBA students. The point is that the firms want talent regardless of the nationality, that is truly the merit of a globalized world. What no one needs is the absolute arbitrary element that the H1B lottery introduces.

  • bwanamia

    “If you work in India you can only influence India. That’s not what I came here for,” says Shekhar. “I came here for gaining the influence and the opportunity to maybe influence the strategy of the whole world.”

    I don’t understand. India is four times the population of the US. That’s not large enough for Shekhar?

    Here’s the thing, if US MBA programs didn’t also offer the lure of employment in the US, how many foreign students would come here? Perhaps it would be good idea to end H1B once and for all.