London Business School vs. UPenn’s Wharton

Poets&Quants:

Surprisingly, the largest single chunk of MBAs at Wharton have undergraduate backgrounds in the humanities and social sciences. At first blush, you’d expect to see far more math and engineering folks here because of the school’s strength in finance. Instead, you get a sizable group of poets.

Undergrad Degrees Wharton London
Humanities/Social Science 42% NA
Engineering/Math 30% NA
Business/Economics 28% NA

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Jobs and Pay:

MBAs from London Business School are getting salary and bonus offers that exceed those of graduates from the best U.S. schools. In the Class of 2009, starting pay packages averaged $137,429, nearly $14,000 more per offer than those at Wharton. The reason: Largely, it’s the cost-of-living impact. The cost of living in London–and most of Europe–is considerably higher than it is in the U.S., accounting for much of the difference. About 51% of the graduates stay in the United Kingdom.

The estimates of median pay and bonus five years after commencement come from the Forbes’ survey of the best business schools and include an analysis of compensation for the Class of 2008. The median pay estimates 10 years after graduation and over a full career come from a study by PayScale done for BusinessWeek and do not include stock options or equity stakes by entrepreneurs. The study did not include schools outside the U.S.
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Job & Pay Data Wharton London
Starting salary & bonus $123,741 $137,429
MBAs employed at commencement 65.8% NA
MBAs employed 3 months after commencement 74.6% 81.0%
Median pay and bonus five years after commencement $200,000 $209,000
Estimated median pay ten years after commencement $161,000 NA
Estimated median pay & bonus over a full career $3,491,372 NA

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Who Hires Who:

London Business School does surprisingly well, given its relatively small size. Befitting its location, finance looms large. In 2007, 46% of the school’s grads headed for jobs in financial services. Two years later, the global economic decline led to a 10-percentage point drop so that only 36% of the Class of 2009 went into finance jobs. Picking up the slack were consulting firms which scooped up 31% of London’s output, up from just 23% two years earlier. One surprise in the numbers in the table below: Prestige financial players such as Morgan Stanley and J.P. Morgan Chase, significant recruiters at Wharton and other top U.S. b-schools, were nowhere to be found at London Business School. Just as significant, it’s worth pointing out that more Wharton grads go into health care, technology, and consumer products and retail companies than those at London. NA does not necessarily mean that a company didn’t hire any graduates from the school, but rather that the number of grads it did hire did not qualify it for breakout treatment by the school. The cutoff number at Wharton was six hires; at London, it was two hires.

Hiring Company Number of Hires

at WhartonNumber of Hires

at LondonMcKinsey & Co.5021Boston Consulting Group3110Bain & Co.186Morgan Stanley13NACitigroup123JP Morgan Chase12NADeloitte Consulting10NADeutsche Bank105Goldman Sachs94Credit Suisse89Microsoft8NAPacific Investment Mgt.8NAAmazon72Booz & Co.77BofA/Merrill Lynch76Barclays Capital611Johnson & Johnson64UBS3*2American Express3*2A.T. Kearney3*5Accenture3*3General Mills3*3Fidelity3*3PricewaterhouseCoopersNA2NomuraNA3Standard Chartered Bank3*3

  • DrJ$$

    John, is Wharton also included as being part of “the likes of a Harvard or Stanford”, or are you talking about specifically those two schools? I am currently facing precisely the decision Wharton vs. LBS and the answer to the above question will play an essential role… also how do you view Oxford Said? It has such a strong brand in Europe (and globally) and yet it is not mentioned in the top tier of European b-schools.

  • A

    Hello,

    I have a question regarding US recruitment at LBS. If you are an American, and are looking for a global experience, we it be a better idea to do a foreign exchange at LBS instead of attending full time? My concern is the expense of London. I also got a pretty tepid response from an LBS representative when I asked about US recruiting.

  • Planet GPA

    A small business school is really a university-level institution that confers degrees running a business Administration. They could even be known by such names as College of economic, College of economic Administration, School of economic, or School of economic Administration. A small business school teaches topics for example accounting, administration, economics, entrepreneurship, finance, information systems, marketing, organizational behavior, public realtions, strategy, human resource management, and quantitative methods.

    planet gpa

  • Karthik nellian

    Hi John, 

    I guess my comment should be posted here rather than the comments section in the smackdown of Wharton Vs Columbia. I have been following your website, Poets and Quants for a long time now. I would like to thank you very much for the effective detail embedded into every B-school smackdown. It’s really helpful and thank you very much for the same. I was just wondering if you could do a smackdown of Insead Vs London and ISB Vs HKUST, since there are a lot of prospective students just like me, waiting for your analysis and advice before making a clear cut decision. Thanks for the same John. You are doing a very great Job!!
    Best Regards,

    Karthik

  • Dwjerj

    Couldn’t agree more. We desperately need a Chicago-Wharton smackdown! Loooong overdue

  • Foryouankit

     John, we need a Chicago vs. Wharton comparison.  Really confused which one is a better school.  Would love to hear your thoughts

  • Gnut Sucram

    Hi John, I am also interest to know when will you release the smashdowns among Europe Top 3: INSEAD/IMD/LBS, Thanks!

  • mr.ap

    But what if you are european? (like me). If you go to USA you can get your chances there and eventually come back and work anywhere in Europe since you do not need any visa. Whereas the opposite does not hold true. So I think that such a choice opens up more opportunities. And besides, a european with an american degree is more rare, and by attending in US you have expanded your borders. Does it make sense?

  • Sorry: the correct path: @Wharton MBA -> CFA -> the youngest CFO for an startup. 

  • Wow, amazing thoughts about these two amazing MBA schools, but for me, that I want to be a CFA rock star, @WhartonMBA:twitter  program is the best fit for me. Wait for me, Philadelphia. My path is MBA -> CFA -> the youngest CFO for a startup. Regards

  • paramia

    Yes, they aren’t comparable..how can you compare Rolls Royce with Cadillac..doesn’t make sense.. ::))

  • Marioalejo

    I don’t think so, i know people who entered to LBS and Wharton and finally deciding to go to LBS; outside US, LBS has a great reputation!, is a recognized business school comparable to any US business school

  • seeksleek

    I completely agree !!!! Unless it’s H/S, LBS, INSEAD, IMD, IESE are great choices for European career goals. Plus IESE is an elite school in EU. UCLA is a great school (Great for Cali) but not US top elite

  • Alex

    Hi John,

    You mentioned that you’d be publishing a comparison between LBS, Insead and IMD in Q1. Could you please advise when you’re planning to release it? I may have a choice to make between the schools towards the end of March and your review would come in handy.

    Thanks a lot!

  • USvEurope,

    Yes. But just to help, this decision very much turns on where you most want to work. If it’s Europe, you’re going to be in a much better position graduating from a top business school such as IESE. Only in few circumstances would I suggest that an applicant who is accepted by a top European school, ie. London, INSEAD, IMD, HEC Paris, IESE, and IE, and who wants to work in Europe should go to a U.S. business school. That is when the applicant has received a yes from the likes of a Harvard or Stanford.

  • Arnold,

    This data doesn’t change very much year-over-year so we aren’t updating the smackdowns every single year unless there is something dramatic that occurs.

  • Arnold

    The LBS recruiting data is a year old and doesn’t recent hiring, e.g., McKinsey hired 39 people from LBS last year.

  • USvEurope

    Hi John,
    Could you do a comparison between a fantastic European school and a good US school? I need to make a choice between UCLA and IESE soon, and I am very confused. Thanks a lot.

  • Gosh

    The problem with that kind of comparisons is that it dosen’t give you a winner. In my mind, the only real criteria that one should take into account is how highly a program is regarded worldwide so the weakness of LBS is that it is first and foremost a London story…

  • John

    Hey john,
    Would love a Darden v. Duke smack down. Getting close to decision time. Thanks!

  • Brian,

    Yes. We will be comparing LBS and INSEAD, along with IMD, Oxford and Cambridge shortly. In the first quarter of the new year.

  • Brian

    John,

    Can you compare LBS and INSEAD to the “top” US schools with respect to the opportunities they provide in the US? Thanks.

  • Conor

    Wharton and LBS are not comparable. LBS is comparable to <= top 12 US schools. Wharton and Chicago may make sense as Adam mentioned above. Comparing a 323 BMW with a 500 SL Mercedes doesn't make sense just to make some LBS ppl happy. Apologies for LBS people but you are, with a stretch at par with top 12-15 US schools.

  • Adam,

    Thanks much for your kind comments. Yes, indeed, Chicago vs. Wharton is high up on the list. It should have been done months ago! Will get to it soon.

  • Adam Goldman

    John,

    I loved the smack down of two global finance giants! Still I can’t wait for Chicago Booth vs Wharton. Is that on the list?!

  • Bruce Vann

    “e) eventually these folks go and loot and cause recession every decade.”

    what do mbas do? they all do same thing, you’re very very wrong on this point. Recessions happened long before MBA’s were thought of and were less severe as the MBA became more popular. MBA’s don’t even have enough power to cause a recession every decade. We ALL caused this because of the trillions of decisions that we made over many years. Perhaps an MBA macro economics course wouldn’t hurt.

  • what do mbas do? they all do same thing!

    They all learn same thing and do same thing more or less! They all have same patois! MBA’s can be serious drones. Meaning they already following a protocol, they are not going to break any rules or go out of the way to change anything, no sparkle, no romance, no jazz and no fizz, they cant let loose with all that baggage they have and they gonna handle!
    The precedent is already set.
    a) pay high fees
    b) get internship
    c) get jobs from the company who have already hired alumni of these schools.
    d) the pay scale is fixed by market.
    e) eventually these folks go and loot and cause recession every decade.
    ranking,fees,number of job offers, sign bonus, year end bonus…..
    It is all good if money only can make you happy!
    bravo!

  • Shern Frederick

    Great article. One concern on the commentary. “Also, 40% of the class at Wharton is international so at least 40% would be non-native English speakers”. International does not imply non-native English Speaker. If one were to assume that the 40% of the internationals at Wharton were from the UK, then it’s REASONABLE to assume that the entire class would be all native english speakers. Being international and not having english as a first language don’t mean the same thing. 40% international may quicker mean “at most” 40% are non-native english speakers, not “at least”.

  • It’s really a great thought & knowlege sharing excerise. I enjoyed the article & comments thoughly. Hopefully I will see such a more eye opening articles ahead.

  • Tim

    Wow – both Jim and Jimi commented. Anyway, Nigel makes a great point regarding the comparison of hires from vastly differing class sizes. Still, I found this article very interesting and a rather fun exercise.

    Anecdotally – I see my company represented as having hired from both schools. I recently met an international grad from one of the schools who is in way over her head at my companu, but that’s neither here nor there.

    Great website – and keep doing these interesting articles!

  • Jimi

    One correction: regarding recruiting, being a recent LBS Grad, I can definitely vouch for Morgan Stanley, Deloitte and the likes being on campus. I know classmates who are working at those firms now, having been recruited through Career Services.

  • Nigel

    I’d like to point to a few flaws in your logic and make some further comments about your article (beyond its obvious Wharton bias). You state that Wharton “cares less” about GMAT. Really ? How so ? because they admitted someone with a 540 ?? Doesnt matter that the vast majority of the Wharton class will need nearly appx 720 as opposed to appx 700 at LBS. How about also comparing the average age / work experiences / industry backgrounds of people so that we get a better idea of the differences in the student body (digging beyond a raw GMAT score) ?

    Then you compare #of recruits by firm. At this point you should consider that it makes no sense to compare #of recruits by firm for a class size of 850 v/s a class size of 400 (actually 330 based on your out of date numbers).

    On that point you absolutely neglect the wonderful community feel at LBS (due to the small class size) not to mention the amazingly collaborative students. I consider this one of the biggest differentiating factors between LBS and Wharton (and most US schools). The social events at LBS are nothing like most American schools. The experience is enhanced with the many many social trips all around Europe taken by students at LBS. They have access and they have familiarity (i.e. say a trip to central Europe organized by someone actually from Khazakistan).

    Another advantage at LBS is its exchange program to most top American schools. This includes Wharton (yes – you can experience both), Kellogg, Chicago Booth, Columbia, MIT, Tuck, Haas, Stern and several others. Most American schools have exchange programs, but not to other top American programs.

    These are just some of the most obvious things I felt that your article was lacking. There are several points but that would make the post almost as long as the article. But I do hope that in future posts you make a better effort of understanding what the school is all about.

  • Luiz Arruda

    Beginning with the MBA 2011 class, LBS’ intake size is 400 students.

  • Jim

    The Wharton class profile (as posted on their website) states that 720 is the median. Nevertheless it could be that the avg=median and in any case it doesnt really matter if the GMAT is +/- 2 or 3 points. My other point though, focused not on class diversity (I am certain that Wharton students are of the highest quality on all aspects, diversity included) but rather on the assumption that the GMAT and escecially the verbal part might be a little more challenging for students that are non-native English speakers.

    One another note, I do understand that comparing a top US school to a top EU school can be quite challenging and can sometimes lead to apples vs oranges comparisons. I mean, even US schools are sometimes hard to compare/rank; eg Wharton vs Tuck, very very different student experiences…

    Anyway, sorry for the long post. Btw, love the site, great articles!

  • Thanks Jim. I don’t believe, however, that the Wharton number is a median but rather an average. We want to compare apples to apples here, and in all cases I’m using reported averages. Also, 40% of the class at Wharton is international so at least 40% would be non-native English speakers. Many of the American students at Wharton have also lived and traveled abroad and are fluent in other languages.

  • Jim

    You might want to include in your article that the average GMAT at LBS is 701 for class of 2012. Wharton has a median (not avg, there is a difference) of 720. Moreover, 90% of students at LBS are non native english speakers versus maybe 30-40% at Penn.