Big Changes In U.S. News Ranking Of MBA Programs

by: John A. Byrne on March 15, 2016 | 190 Comments 193,453 Views

U.S. News & World Report 2016 MBA Ranking

2016 Rank & SchoolIndex #2015 RankIndex #Change
27. Ohio State (Fisher(653067+3
27. Minnesota (Carlson)652768——–
27. Wisconsin-Madison653366+6
27. Washington (Foster)652372-4
31. Brigham Young (Marriott)643366+2
31. Texas A&M (Mays)642768-4
31. Southern California (Marshall)642569-6
34. Georgia Tech (Scheller)633067-4
35. Arizona State (Carey)623067-5
35. Michigan State (Broad)623765+2
37. Florida (Hough)613765——–
37. Texas-Dallas613366-4
39. Illinois-Urbana-Champaign604759+8
39. Rochester (Simon)603765-2
41. Boston Univ. (Questrom)574361+2
41. Penn State (Smeal)573765-4
41. Temple (Fox)574162——-
41. Maryland (Smith)574162——-
45. UC-Davis564858+3
45. Iowa (Tippie)564361-2
47. Purdue (Krannert)555358+6
48. Southern Methodist (Cox)544858——–
48. UC-Irvine (Merage545358+5
50. Boston College (Carroll)534560-5

Source: U.S. News & World Report 2015 MBA Ranking

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  • Jerry

    Agree!

  • Jerry

    This is MBA program. Of course Wharton is Number one. Look at major rankings and find fit one. I pay $250k to learn majors, not buying a brand for showing off.

  • Jerry

    Parton? Wharton has many majors that are ranked much higher up than HBS and GSB. What are those rankings for? You should look at major you want to study, not a brand name for showing off. Plus Wharton brand is a top notch at every top business, financial institutions and tech companies too. Students seldom drop off to become notable. It proofs that wharton education is better than those schools whose students do not appreciate learning but rather get a brand name, then drop out.

  • Jerry

    Wharton grad rate is 98.4%.
    How come you listed as 80,8%?

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  • shanky

    Disappointed to see my school Fuqua missing the bus once again

  • John

    Darden > SOM

  • Intransigent

    Can we redefine “M7” finally? Seems like Haas deserves to be included…

  • Mike Wehadaabaskito

    Lol, what a joke

  • youaredumb

    Apparently you’re an idiot who doesn’t understand how averages work.

  • KatieLawrence17

    John, have you ever done an article on “MBA Program Strength by Major City”? It would be good to know what the alumni base and recent recruiting trends are showing on a city-by-city basis, and maybe by industry within those cities? Perhaps the top 5 to 10 major cities or regions would be beneficial to readers.

  • bronzeushapple

    Even more strange are the haters, LOL!

  • goldushapple

    “Yale university might be a stronger overall brand than Columbia
    university and YSOM has been really aggressive in chancing the rankings
    but it is simply not a top 10 school ( maybe #10 but not a stop higher
    than that). It just goes to show you how important and bankable a really
    prestigious and strong overall brand is”

    Pretty much this.

  • manygrainsofpoop

    you are an idiot.

  • Stern16

    I hear Stern is great if you want to break into the pancake industry

  • Tech212

    Apparently Wharton does have wiggle room because it is below its record highs for application volume, plus “someone” recently made the brand (for better or for worse) a little more of an internationally-recognizable “buzzword”

  • Hope so

    I hope so but it seems difficult bc Wharton has almost maxed out manipulation on gmat score and has made the app as easy as possible so as to get more volume. All the other M7’s have much more wiggle room, which scares me.

  • blakjedi

    Well it’s primarily clustering. I’m older so I’m really a part of the executive mba set. I was going to apply to booth Wharton and Columbia as they all have highly ranked programs which also have an international footprint.

    I ended up just applying to Booth because they had a London campus that I could get to while I’m overseas. I was admitted to exp23 which the European cohort of of the emba class. The other cohorts are in chicago and Hong Kong (formerly Singapore )

    I’m a native new yorker but did not feel like I could gain the additional international finance exposure I wanted by standing pat in New York, Boston, Philadelphia or Chicago. As time goes by there will be more Booth alumni worldwide.

    In the US wealth is clustered on the coasts primarily with Chicago being the main outpost in the middle of the country with Houston being it’s southern analog. Stanford grads cluster in the bay area after graduation. Columbia and Wharton grads cluster in the new York area. Harvard grads primarily probably remain in the northeast in the Boston Washington corridor where a preponderance of American wealth resides as well as a higher cost of living.

    If people cluster into the region where they school because they seek jobs in those regions with higher COL and therfore higher salaries that very simply explains the salary disparity rather than some esoteric attribution of educational quality.

  • Jeromy2016

    But I’ve read many posts on here arguing that Booth has an expansive footprint on the West Coast, East Coast, and worldwide – in addition to the Midwest. Wouldn’t that diminish your Midwest-centric COLA argument?
    Which is it? Either Boothies get lower pay while competing on an equal footing geographically (as I’ve read), OR their lower pay is justified by being overly-weighted in the Midwest, which is another issue. It’s more likely a combination of both…they are only mildly geographically competitive and mildly downward affected by their Midwest centricity.

  • W or B?

    For every one of you, statistically, there is 3 of the other who would say the complete opposite. Chicago recruiting will be convenient for you, Mas.

  • mas05x@gmail.com

    I chose Booth over Wharton. They are both great schools. When it comes down to it though, you just pick a school that you feel more at home with. You have to ask yourself which community you fit in the best with. After interviewing at both schools, in my opinion, the Wharton brand is in decline. I was much more impressed w/ Chicago.

  • hahaha

    U have a lot of free time .. don’t u. maybe u can become an english teacher

  • manygrainsofsalt

    Yale SOM has a class size of around 330 so about 17% went to MBB (from a school that is not known for management consulting)? Are you factoring in the undergrads? I get people are proud Yale SOM is getting some spotlight but anyone who might be reading this stuff and taking it semi-seriously should make sure to conduct their own research…rather rigorously

  • rossMBB

    Pretty strong unless you want to be in NYC area…a lot of it comes down to how well you case, how well you network, etc.

  • blakjedi

    east coast and west coast cost of living is quite a bit higher than the rest of the US. A very simple explanation for a very simple phenomenon.

  • rats0216@gmail.com

    Sentence correction: it’s “bases” not “basis”. Take your illiterate sub 600 GMAT somewhere else

  • GG

    im not buying the H > W story in NYC

  • Booth is solid, sure

    W’s apps (6600) increased by 7.8% (on the second largest class size/volume) in 2015, which was the highest amongst the M7. With anemic growth at B’s 4000 apps / low yield program, this anomalous USN result is bound to drift backwards to where the business community knows it really belongs

  • I’m silly

    You mean meteorologists? ?

  • eltine

    Dear future MBA Students

    I have recruited and know students from all the top schools

    1. I would still goto NYU or Columbia over Yale/Chicago/Kellogg/Tuck
    2. New York City churns millionaires like no other city in the world and CBS and NYU give u the best exposure and network on earth
    3. if a magazine basis rankings on 40% on GMAT scores – which is Sentence correction … should that even be relevant ??
    4. Ask the millionaires and billionaires in New York and Silicon Vally what they think of Sentence correction LOL..

    Seriously people, its business .. its who u know .. not sentence correction which Yale and Booth love .

    CBS and NYU grads are far far more well rounded

  • bwanamia

    My comment was directed at the world’s most famous Wharton alum. And most powerful, if he becomes president.

  • MistaFabro

    Uh. Yeah it is. Especially if we’re commenting on an article about MBA rankings.

  • bwanamia

    Not a meaningful distinction.

  • 2cents

    Same guy right? Didn’t know BC had a bschool, glad you get such a kick out of trolling

  • 2centsSUCKS

    Glad you’re enjoying your time at BC, bro.

  • CryLaugh

    That’s because the people who get into booth also get into Harvard. The people who get into Yale got into Johnson ?

  • cap_ATL

    Wharton needs to get it’s act together. There was a time when Harvard, Stanford and Wharton were more or less on equal footing…Now Wharton has fallen behind clearly with the likes of Booth outperforming it across several rankings and Kellogg/MIT at par or pretty much at it’s heels.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Wharton falls down another rank next year.

  • NeverDonated

    Yeah this will interesting haha

  • Cap_ATL

    I agree that after a certain point it is the execution that matters more than the ranking of your school + a certain amount of luck. 99% of the jobs across these top-10 schools are essentially the same. Some people at HBS and Wharton will fail to get their dream Mckinsey/Goldman job, whereas some people from lower ranked schools like Johnson and Ross will end up at these firms.

  • Ojo

    Nice summary. Would like to point out that beyond finance, the University of Chicago is the best in economics, which is the origin of most disciplines.

  • Sloanie

    Generally VC firms don’t recruit very heavily, while some PE and IM do. You usually get in via networking or prior relationships. As a result, what many students do is organize events with PE/VC firms as a way to get to build relationships which can then potentially lead to jobs. Experience def helps and an MBA internship would also add more experience. But especially for VC, firms respect people who have worked in startups / product, so that is usually the best way in. Hope that helps!

  • 2cents

    This is one guy just using different one time names right?

  • J S

    Pretty misleading for them to send out a letter saying they went up +2 when it was actually +1, no way Stern would have ranked below 13 if the data had been reported properly.

  • MistaFabro

    Trump went to Wharton for undergrad. Not an MBA.

  • AndrewSux

    Where? To* North Korea.

    Your grammatical mistake ruins your argument and implies you are a butt hurt UNC/Ross student

  • 3 cents

    GPA and gamy account for 16% of usnwr ranking methodology. Pretty sure Yale didn’t move up to 8th based on data points that account for 1/6th of the pie.

    Ps I’m currently at stern and am livid at administration btw.

    PPS how obvious is it that 2cents got denied at SOM lol never seen such irrational hate for a solid program

  • bwanamia

    Boring. Boring. Boring. Rearranging deck chairs on the USS Prestige-Whore.

    For the record, NYU is probably a stronger program than Yale, but Yale is Yale. Nothing’s changed.

    Here’s what I want to know: how’s Wharton planning to cope when a prodigal son alumnus becomes President?

  • rats0216@gmail.com

    Cathy is “pound for pound” an idiot, how much do midwestern jobs weigh? And what jobs are “midwest focused”? Booth kids go to MBB in Chicago (and around the world), not tractor farms

  • Anthony89

    I think the top-10 determined by USNEWS is a good representation of the picture today..Kudos to Booth for their rise in rankings….The David Booth $300 million donation has helped them tremendously…..However, with heavy money flowing into Columbia (with the new Morningside Heights campus), Stanford (Phil Knight new donation), Kellogg (new campus opening in 2017), Yale (Ted Synder pulling in more donations)….I expect there will be lot of shuffling around in the rankings in the next couple years.

    While, the top-10 B-schools have reached such a quality stage where any dedicated b-school student can pull off any career they want – MBB, Google/Facebook/Microsoft – tech titans, Startups, Fortune-500s – GE, P&G, PE/VC, Investment Banking etc…..

    However, personally for me the top-5 will always be HBS, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg and MIT-Sloan because these 5 schools have their strong niches / thought leadership which together cover the entire spectrum of today’s business world:

    HBS – Leadership / General Management
    Stanford – Entrepreneurship
    Wharton – Finance
    Kellogg – Marketing
    MIT-Sloan – Tech

    Disclaimer: Will be attending Tuck this fall.

  • John A

    What do you guys think of Ross for getting into an MBB?

  • hibye

    Thanks, that helps. I know breaking into tech investing directly is hard but if you do a pre MBA internship and have somewhat related product management experience, would that help? Do you have most of the big PEVC/Investment management firms recruit on campus?

  • Jerry

    even Yale is thwacking Booth’s yield % !

    ?

  • Sloanie

    MIT is great for tech! The campus environment exposes you to leading edge tech like no other place, where you can take courses across MIT and just generally be plugged in to the place where new technologies are invented. It is hard to go straight into tech investing without operator or product experience. As a result, Sloan can be a great time to build up product management and product growth skills that will be valued by tech companies. MIT can help you build your portfolio in tech and then transition into investing 2-5 years after graduating. Hope this helps. Generally, MIT is great for someone looking to get more experience in tech, that’s why I chose it over Booth and other east coast schools.

  • New?

    Umm because it’s an amazing school in one of the fastest growing tech cities in the country. Do you live in a barn? How else could you possibly be lol-ing at this?

  • Hedgie

    How is UT even top 20? lol

  • Anonym7ous

    I agree that the brand is distinct from Kellogg and MIT, but in terms of pound-for-pound overall quality is the brand BETTER? I still don’t see it. As 2cents said below, 97% employment rate at graduation seems to indicate risk aversion more than anything — it isn’t as if Sloan and Kellogg students don’t get good job offers.

    Also, in terms of dual admit battles, I’m very confident that almost no one would choose Booth over Stanford, and the majority would not choose Booth over Wharton. I could see people choosing Booth over MIT and Kellogg for sure, but I think that would be attributable to brand preferences rather than brand value.

  • C. Taylor

    These numbers are volatile (so need to look at more than one point in time) and the BB/BW ones are opaque. BB/BW’s methodology may be inconsistent and or inappropriate and has not been made explicit. Look to Forbes.

    As stated, both Booth and Wharton have recently lagged Harvard and Stanford. However, this is recent, the multi-survey data points are quite similar for the four (i.e. separation is not yet a trend). Note numbers can jump by 30k+ from survey to survey. In the last decade, W+B have been in the exact same ballpark as H+S.

    2004
    Booth 164k
    Stanford 160k
    Wharton 177k
    IMD 161k
    2006
    Booth 199k
    Stanford 200k
    Harvard 200k
    Wharton 196k
    IMD 183k
    2008
    Booth 210k
    Harvard 215k
    Wharton 200k
    IMD 240k
    2010
    Booth 205k
    Stanford 205k
    Wharton 225k
    IMD 247k
    2012
    Booth 200k
    Harvard 205k
    Wharton 205k
    IMD 211k

    And recently:
    2014
    Booth 200k
    Stanford 255k
    Harvard 239k
    Wharton 207k
    IMD 226k

  • TeeGirl88

    You can verify the huge difference in salaries 6-8 years post-MBA through the BusinessWeek MBA website. HSW are far and away outperforming Booth. No other school is in the same league.
    CBS beats Booth as well.

  • TeeGirl88

    Check out the USN specialty rankings in the different core subject areas. Some of the schools you mentioned as one trick ponies are far from it.

  • LOLSIES

    Where? in North Korea?

  • YaleSOMintheSpotlight

    All these excited pro-Yale comments are clearly from the same person whose ego finally feels validated. Such an endearing moment for all! US News has to stay relevant somehow and what better way to do so than through dramatic shifts. Last year was quite blah so this year they had to be dramatic. That said, congrats to a strong (Yale SOM) administration who knows what they want and aren’t afraid to get it. Other schools should watch and learn…but advice to all prospectives reading this, do your research and know that whichever program you decide on, you’ll need to bust your ass to get the most desirable jobs…150k salaries and fat bonuses don’t fall out of the sky even for the (non-uber wealthy) kids at HBS

  • 2cents

    Relax buddy. Public data says reported by US News in particular Yale makes it’s chops from how they rate GPA and GMAT above it looks like, not across the board

  • 2cents

    Haha thanks whoever this is

  • 2Cents

    Whoops just double checked you were right. My bad

  • keepyour2cents

    According to US News, SOM DOES have better stats, and that’s why it was T8 and Columbia 10th. Argue with the methodology if you want, but US news used their methods and collected statistical data and came up with that rating. That’s it. Your opinion is YOUR opinion, just as US News’ opinion is US News’ opinion. But don’t try to argue that one school is objectively better than the other.

  • Facts

    What mirrors are you referring to. We sent 57 kids to MBB this year is that the mirror you are referring too?

  • Aaaaaa

    C Taylor is a king troll. Look how many posts this kid makes get a life loser.

    You log on to hate on Yale. Copy and save this comment. “Yale is and will always be a top 10 (prob top-5) program. Forever”

    You are so pathetic. Thousands of blog posts ew get a life loser

  • YallDontKnow

    Great point C Taylor. Why take Yale a top 8 program with the best prestige/reputation in the world vs NYU that churns out mba (full and part-time) ? You’re an idiot man. What will it take for trolls to move on and accept Yale > cbs, tuck, nyu,

  • Nyu Stern

    Better yet just do part-time MBA at stern. My manager went to a local community college and got his mba at stern at night. No one knows the difference. He is now earning 90-95k a year and manages 3 back office employees at a third tier investment firm. Honestly he loves stern, him and all the other part time/emba grads get to go to all of the full-time mba events in nyc (NO ONE knows the difference!!)

    Ps. Who cares that stern is ranked 20th. As long as it is top 25 we know we are great

  • 2cents

    Source for that? a quick search shows SOM’s acceptance rate just under 20%, and if you adjust for reporting rates (and somehow account for the fact they throw in summer internship payments?) as every other school has above its career report matches the #’s above

  • CathyIsIlliterate

    “Booth is NOT a top 2 or 3 program” …..

    Ummm. Actually it is.

  • Whartom

    Hey not sure why salary says 139k for Yale (perhaps accounted for differently). Yale sent out salary info to students and avg was 146k putting it above CBS. Also currently have lower acceptance rate, higher GMAT/GPA. So ya….they do have better stats

  • RenaultYin

    I got into Kellogg, CBS and Yale and am currently attending Yale. Not trying to troll, honestly felt difference in rankings at the time were negligible. Like the students, professors and building at Yale more than CBS. Also felt CBS was just a finance factory with no community feel. Students resented j-term (and even more so EMBA).

  • DeeFan

    He has already indicated to the students by his actions that he would rather have them pound sand, and he did it with a polite smile.

  • Bagel

    According to tables above, Yale has better stats than Columbia only in GMAT, GPA, and to a small extent in Recruiter Surveys, which means that last year Yale simply selected applicants with higher GMAT/GPA to go up in ranking and it does not care how their backgrounds fit to the school. That just shows how irrelevant and easily manipulated this ranking is.

  • DeeFan

    The sooner Wharton says bye-bye to Garrett the better: slide in rankings, no big donations, mutual dislike between Garrett and students, Garrett out of touch with student career pressures, faculty unhappiness, lack of understanding of US environment. Who was the boob on the board of trustees that pushed this guy?

  • hibye

    What do people think about MIT sloan? It’s clearly a top 5 school but doesn’t get much show time on this website. For tech investing post MBA goal, should you go MIT, booth or wharton?

  • truth

    You mean it is all Harvard, and then Wharton. If you think Wharton surpasses Stanford you are kidding yourself. Yes, people with different interests in general tend to gravitate to Stanford vs Harvard, but the fact is that the entrepreneurship-focused Whartonites are Stanford rejects and the more traditional finance, corporate types at wharton were dinged from HBS. Also it is absolutely true that Wharton gets destroyed by HBS, Stanford in the cross-admit game. There is a small yet very distinct differential between H/S and W. This is all just facts. Wharton is very very close to the top but it is not #1.

  • Onehitwonder

    When 10% of your class is unemployed, I guess you have all the time in the world to troll these message boards

  • slayer

    stanford has been ranked nr 1 or 2 since the beginning of the rankings with the exception of 1 year that was ranked 3. wtf are you talking about?!

  • LOL!

    um you mean how Stanford has been ranked in the top 3 consistently since the beginning of the rankings? (that is 26 years do the math…) in fact it was ranked nr 3 only once…

  • Jakson

    I got into both and did choose Yale (I had a small scholarship, but still would’ve chosen it over columbia). I wound up getting into Stanford in the next round so I passed on both but I would’ve been happy at Yale too. I liked their vibe. Columbia came off as a lot more pretentious to me (just one data point).

  • Drinks on Henry

    I think at a minimum they should stop making us pay for Beer Blasts until this is resolved next year as a courtesy.

  • wineenthusiast

    So based on the raw score, Yale is suddenly better than Columbia and all of its former peers right? Ross, Johnson, Darden, and Fuqua are peers along with Yale, Stern and Anderson.

  • SternMBA2

    Let me tell you people at Stern are absolutely livid with the program leadership over this. I don’t know if Stern was expecting students to be this pissed but they will listen and make changes. Overall, the atmosphere at Stern has been very laid back and the administration is very nice to students. I’m not sure who you heard talking about morale at Stern but I think this is a huge wake-up call to changes that need to be implemented. I was able to get exactly what I wanted out of this program and I’m very satisfied with my experience but I can see how it will affect prospective students’ perceptions. The next year might make or break Stern’s reputation but I’m confident it will be a big wake-up call and they will try hard to make students happy. What an incredibly stupid and laughable mistake though…

  • BSG

    The latter point on network is valid.

    The salary bit is a foolish thing to say.

  • L

    I would pick Yale if I were looking to move into social or nonprofit.

    Would also choose Yale without thinking twice if I’m doing a JD/MBA dual degree or looking do something in environmental or forestry.

    CBS is hands down the better option if you’re looking to do something in finance.

    So really, there’s no obvious choice here, and it really depends on your preference and career aspirations.

  • Top 12 and the Rest

    If you look at the raw scores Johnson (80) is well below Darden (87), Fuqua (86) and Ross (86). So not really sure I understand your rankings.

  • W

    Fire the wharton Dean!!!

  • Ha

    Stanford like Wharton is a one trick pony. Once HBS, Wharton, Booth and Kellogg (the top 5) focused more on tech and startups, they were toast.

    It was bound to happen. Stanford tried to hire more wall street types to diversify but it backfired because they lost their “edge”

    And the Stanford Scandals…. Did not help at all.

    Columbia on the other hand is surprising….

  • Whoareyouetown

    You are misinformed. Why are you spreading easy-to-refute lies? It’s a bad look on you.

    1. Yale is a target school. MBB interviews about 60 people each for summer internships. That’s out of about 80 people. Of course, these are competitive jobs and not everyone gets them. That is true at every school. Further proof? Look at MBBs websites. Yale is a target school lol. http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/your-career/mckinsey-on-campus/schools/mba/yale-university—school-of-management

    2. 8% of yale students go to MBB? out of what? where’s the figure from? That equals about 24 people per class. Closer to 50 people are going to MBB this year. Furthermore, NOT everyone wants to go into consulting, so your number is misleading.

    If you like Tuck and do not like Yale, then try to get into Tuck and not Yale (to be frank, i doubt you’re in any MBA school because you’re simply too out-of-touch). Enough with the silliness.

    Side note: I have a bunch of friends at Kellogg that I met at Bain this summer. If you are indeed a real person, reveal who you are and we can chat. I’m sure we have mutual friends and I’m curious how someone who is so misinformed got into kellogg.

  • RankingsKeepChanging

    Full ride at Stern. Just take it. This year’s drop in ranking for Stern is an anomaly. Moreover, living in NYC will give you unparallel access to Investment Banking/Management firms (where networking and attending events is a must).

  • Etown

    I have no dog in this fight, but let’s compare Yale with Tuck, 20% of Tuck grads go into MBB, less than 8% of Yale students do. Further, Yale is simply not a core school for MBB, Tuck is, much like the M7 schools. “Recruiting at” does not equal a core school.
    Next, let’s consider PE/VC. Tuck places top 5 into PE and VC, Yale from when I was admitted placed exactly zero. Now perhaps this has changed in the past two years, but I doubt it.

    Either way both are fine schools, but Yale needs more time to catch up so to speak.

    Full disclosure I applied to Tuck and Yale, was admitted to both, chose Kellogg.

  • James J.

    Booth is a fantastic school. It helped launch my career into VC! Interesting to see how rankings will be in the next 5 years. I’m sure the schools will move around. Ultimately though, the top 10 schools are all wonderful.

  • 2cents

    ? Yale doesn’t have better stats…

  • C. Taylor

    Thanks. Tough question. Tech people would mostly choose Stanford. Probably same for future PE/VC/HF crowd–which it mainly doesn’t matter for as they are getting a rubber stamp. Consulting really doesn’t matter. But for banking jobs? Booth.

    Stanford people are five times more interested in starting their own business (generally a bad idea) than a solid IB position in NYC.

  • GG535

    Stanford MBA only sends about 200-250 grads into the “workforce” each year (this excludes start-ups in the valley, of course). With year-in/year-out recruiters and real long-term reputation, Wharton SURPASSES Stanford…and it’s not even close. Compare that to Wharton’s 750 btw. This compunds year after year…after year. Furthermore, on the East Coast, it’s all H and W.
    You’re simply mistaken if you think Wharton undergrad isn’t #1 for those on the business track.

  • Al

    Idk. I would strongly consider Yale over Columbia. They have a lot of momentum right now, and due have slightly better stats over Columbia.

    Also, the more powerful factor here is the brand of the institution at large. Most people don’t know jack about business school rankings, so there is a lot of halo-effect in saying yea i went to yale. Only other b-schools that can compete their is Stanford and HBS.

  • welldone

    Very objective and informative comment.

  • Getwithit

    You’re one person and who knows if you’re capable of getting into any of these schools. Your opinion is not statistically significant and your comment reeks of belief bias.

    Further, your statement “based on salaries” means nothing, besides illustrating that you are uninformed. Average salaries are dependent on what industries students pursue. Top ibanks and consulting firms pay you the same regardless of what program you’re attending and previous experience. If more students pursue finance or consulting than other industries, average salaries will be higher. Indeed, sending people to the top firms matters too, but the schools within the top 15 or so are all target schools. All the best firms recruit there.

  • C. Taylor

    Cathy 14 wrote: “5 years post-MBA, [Booths] average salaries do not come close to HSW”
    Not correct–Although both Booth and Wharton have both recently failed to keep up with strong performance at Harvard and Stanford.

    Cathy 14 wrote: “The jobs that Booth students get are more Midwest focused”
    You mean Booth has a lock on the Chicago market.

    For Booth grads in the US:
    32.8% in Chicago
    23% NYC
    3.8% Boston
    15.4% Bay Area (Tech, anyone?)

  • Tuk tucks it in

    Looks like you’ve conducted a statistically significant analysis here 😉

    What happened to your shirt?

  • 2cents

    Glad you enjoyed (or are enjoying) your time at SOM. New campus ftw.

  • BschoolGirl

    hahaha Sterngate.
    Yeah, you’re probably right. Though, the schools in the 11-19 would probably care A LOT. Cornell sent out an official letter this AM notifying everyone of its move of +2. LOL

  • Huh

    Lol the changes prob would not have made a difference in those outside 11-19 since those are the ones who got bumped a spot bc of “Sterngate” (trademarked)

  • 2cents

    What John mentioned… If you go to a top school and are still looking after 3 months (or at graduation), it’s usually more of a sign that you are targeted and more likely not to take a cog job that comes through on a fixed recruiting cycle, instead of just not hireable. Things like VC, PE, Startups, large hedge funds and WM, Higher-grade employees above standard post-mba entry level, etc.

    I personally view anything above low 90s at these schools as more the school attracts risk-adverse students.

  • 2cents

    Yea I’m not really saying that. There is more consistency to USN so I prefer it as a ranking, but I dislike the fact it is swayed so strongly by (a) how well career services groups keep out moderate interest candidates and (b) building new facilities. I still prefer looking at career outcomes and students/faculty own satisfication

  • HorS

    John, I had a question. Do you think Stanford is vulnerable to being so reliant on the tech industry? After the financial crisis, it seems like Stern, Columbia, Wharton, etc. showed signs of over-exposure and lost some steam. Do you see this bubble as a weakness to Stanford compared to Harvard?

  • what???

    in the long term stanford wasn’t in this discussion.

  • keeping it real

    Wharton has never really been a true peer of H or S, lets be real here. Tell me how many MBA cross admits turn down H or S for Wharton. Also on the undergraduate level the majority of Wharton kids are Harvard, Stanford rejects. Wharton is rightfully 3rd after H/S just half a notch down but its not completely on par with them. No hating, just being objective.

  • nottoolongago

    didn’t stanford just become relevant like 10 years ago? lol is a great, condescending insult btw. keep it up

  • hyperbole

    obama, go home you’re drunk.

  • slayer

    lol i am amused u think Stanford people even think about Booth. Rankings overestimate schools all the time. this is yet another case of this. in the long term things are adjusted though and this sis what will happen.

  • slayer

    maybe over Tuck (i wouldn’t but some would i guess) but CBS? no way! get real.

  • BschoolGirl

    It’s probably not warranted that Stern falls 9 spots, BUT it does bring to light a lot of Stern’s corner-cutting as a school and lack of attention. I can see why US News didn’t redo the list because redoing it affects more way more than just one school, and at this late in the game, it would have been almost impossible to reorganize the rankings of 80 other schools based on Stern’s mistake.

    As for the unhappiness of upper management, I happened to be sitting on a plane with a few people who knew the inner workings of the program. I’m not going to go into too much detail for obvious reasons.

  • slayer

    i would guess very very few, if any.

  • mas05x@gmail.com

    So you’re implying that Booth is not an “elite” school?

  • mas05x@gmail.com

    Booth is making big moves in entrepreneurship…that and their employment rate

  • David15

    Or he should politely smile and tell USN to pound sand..

  • msm

    Please expand on what you’re heard.

    And the ranking isn’t justified, at least not according to the data. It is due to *one* missing data point. Should Stern have been more on top of their data reporting? Absolutely. But does US News also have an obligation to provide rankings that are based on complete and accurate data? One would assume but clearly they are more interested in what is reading as nothing more than a power trip.

  • Bethany13

    I agree with this ranking more or less, with two slight revisions. I’d move Wharton up into a tie with Stanford and Columbia up into a tie with Booth.

  • GG535

    Wharton has never proven itself as a peer to H or S? Are you talking about undergraduate b-school rankings, years of historical MBA rankings, or EMBA rankings? Or all of the above?
    Thanks, Bye.

  • Booth 4 Eva

    Just go to USN, click on Booth, then compute: ‘Enrolled’ / ‘Accepted’ = 55.9%.
    Plus Wharton demolishes Booth is the cross-admit battle. Perhaps John can post a link of the latest cross-admit breakdown…
    I mean come on…honestly USN?

  • JohnAByrne

    Just to clarify: If a Stanford or any MBA graduate does a startup, he or she is not included in the employment stats. However, at Stanford a larger number of students prefer to work in the startup world or with an early stage company. As the article points out, those are one-off searches because those firms don’t have the recruiting function to handle MBAs. That obviously takes longer and results in the lower employment rates at graduation and three months later. As we point out in the article, that is not a negative. In fact, it can be viewed as a strong positive because it reflects the confidence graduates have to shun more mainstream offers and wait to get the jobs they really want.

  • Obama

    Everything is relative. When Booth gets its manufacturing and Midwest jobs, of course Alex Dumbo recruiter (before he goes home at 4:30pm) will give ole Booth a 5 out of 5 score.
    It’s not even in the same league.

  • GG534

    Couldn’t agree more. Yet, in New York, a Stanford sighting is quite rare my friend.

  • GG534

    Can you refute the gal?

  • Noshame

    Wharton? Is that you?

  • Cathy 14

    The jobs that Booth students get are more Midwest focused, so pound for pound, they are not as competitive. Also, 3-5 years post-MBA, their average salaries do not come close to HSW. Booth’s starting pay is lower, the KINDS of jobs (and prestige) are less impressive, and the intermediate (and therefore long-term…which stems from it) salary growth from said jobs are all missing elements from USN’s silly analysis.
    Booth is NOT a top 2 or 3 program, and it most likely never will be for these reasons.

  • 4.0unemployed

    Most of them work on it throughout school. It’s not like they just start working on it for the first time after graduating.

  • JZ

    As someone who had applied to Stern, it seems that their process was extremely inconsistent and disorganized. It seems like this is reflected in all aspects of the MBA program and maybe that is why the ranking is justified. From things I’ve heard, Stern doesn’t seem to put students first and its upper management are said to be extremely unhappy.

  • Tuk Tran

    i want to see what percentage of people accepted to both yale and columbia will pick yale over columbia, absent a huge scholarship

  • Grain of Salt

    Very few takeoff within 3mons..the point being they are technically not employed per these measures if an entrepreneur

  • Sigh

    When you get to the real world, you’ll realize most don’t care if you went anywhere outside of Harvard / Stanford / Wharton. The rest of the top 10 are all the same.

  • Don’t delete me

    I would take UT over Steen

  • Goodbutnotgreat

    I still wouldn’t choose YSOM over Tuck or CBS, based on salaries and the strength / breadth of the respective alumni networks.

  • spanish_wharton

    The Wharton School

    With Dean Geoffrey Garrett

    Number 4; Financial Times, Ranking MBA (Down 1 spots from #3)

    Number 4; US News, Ranking MBA (Down 1 spots from #3)

    Number 5; Bloomberg Business, Ranking MBA (Down 3 spots from #2)

    at UNSW Business School

    #66 Ranking MBA Financial Times

    With: Dean Thomas Robertson

    Number 1 and 2; Financial Times, Ranking MBA

    Number 1; US News, Ranking MBA

    Number 2; Bloomberg Business, Ranking MBA

  • Error

    Fix this section please as Yale SOM did not jump Tuck:
    “Yale finished 13th last year and had to push past Columbia Business School, Dartmouth College’s Tuck School of Business, the University of Virginia’s Darden School, New York University’s Stern School of Business, the University of Michigan’s Ross School, and Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business to enter the Top Ten.”

  • Timberlake

    Butt hurt Stanford kid

  • 4.0unemployed

    Yeah but clearly their startups aren’t doing so hot, at least 3 months out.

  • mas05x@gmail.com

    A 97% employment rate at graduation, that’s how…..Booth is very much distinguishable from both Kellogg and MIT as well, very different brand…

  • Grain of Salt

    The low placement % from Stanford is largely due to the startup scene so this is a very biased metric and the same may be able to be said for HBS. Jobs Later is a better test than Jobs @ Grad since many delayfinalizing offers until after graduating

  • RealTalk

    Lol I have no dog in this fight but Wharton is KING of gaming

  • Cherrypicking

    With that argument, why are people crying about Stanford being tied with Booth when the only metric Boots outperforms is job stats?

  • DeeFan

    Geoffrey Garrett needs to get on this slide by Wharton to make sure it does not drift lower.

  • 4.0unemployed

    Booth certainly falls a couple points short in gmat, gpa, and admissions. But it’s above and beyond all other schools when it comes to landing its students jobs. This is just my guess from the outside.

  • Check Your Egos

    Does it really matter who is #1-#10? At the end of the day these are among the very best schools in the world…the fact there is this much diatribe over single digit differences is laughable.

  • Dan

    Quants: you seem to have omitted Washington (Foster) from the list (27 tie)

  • Daps for USN

    The point being we are quibbling about a few spots between the best .01% of schools. The fact someone is #1 while someone is #8 is just about egos — 99% of MBA employers list the T10 in their target schools.

  • Anonym7ous

    This is an honest question meant to gain perspective rather than slander the school, but what has Booth done to deserve its #2 ranking? They’re certainly one of the top b-schools in the land, but I don’t understand what they have done to be tied with Stanford, the most competitive b-school for admissions in the world? In my mind, I don’t see how Booth has even distinguished itself from Wharton, MIT, and Kellogg.

  • osdoligjsed

    It also has the same recruiter and peer rankings as Wharton. This means that Booth’s strength is in its employment at graduation, which is an absolutely ridiculous metric to start with. The elite schools have lower employment at graduation because their students are aware of the fact that they have additional bargaining power.

  • HatersGonHate

    Yale som is top 8 program and will always be top 10. Get used to it. I know many ppl that turned down cbs for Yale. CBS has so many j term/emba students it’s watered down the program. In NYC 50% of low level finance guys have MBA from CBS or nyu it means nothing. No one respects either.

    Everyone always says “this ranking doesn’t mean anything blah blah” in 5 years no one would consider CBS or tuck over Yale.

    Also i love the NYu whiners stern is a joke. No one respects them.

  • Ansard@gmail.com

    Not really, the difference comes from placement %, it is not connected to “GMAT inflation” or whatever.

  • Truth

    I completely agree. There are 5 people on earth who would choose Booth over Stanford…

  • Orange 1

    So what’s the real story? It is inexcusable for something like this to happen? What is it the school’s fault or not? Just seems that Stern has been fading for the past 2-3 years, though not sure why. In the highly competitive world of MBA rankings, this counts as a body blow.

  • C. Taylor

    MIT, Wharton would be hard to turn down. Depends on your background. If you have a solid path into IM already, definitely do Stern if that was your plan earlier. Kellogg? If you have a solid path into IM already, OK–otherwise, no. Dartmouth and Columbia are great.

    Currently, the only reason to choose Yale over a full ride at Stern for IM would have to do with some aspect of fit very specific to you and your goals.

    Stern’s current ranking is meaningless for practical purposes. See below. Ignore the rankings at this point and choose based on advantages obtained relevant to your goals.

  • BSG

    Take that offer from Stern. It is a top notch finance school that places well in NYC.

  • Skeptical

    Have an offer from school ranked between 4 – 10 ..no dollars though…Post MBA I am aiming to get into Investment Management.

  • BSG

    Unless you have an offer from H/S/W or partial scholarships from another school ranked between 4 and 10, you have to consider taking that offer from Stern.

    Employers and alumni will put little value into these rankings – especially in the likely event that it rebounds in ranking the following year.

  • MBA-Watch

    yale above columbia !! who is the editor of this list ?!

  • Skeptical

    I also thought that..was planning to join Stern this year (with a full ride and a named scholarship)..having second thoughts now…

  • C. Taylor

    Tuck and Haas are elites per career impact. Different tier. But have to take fit into account, of course.

  • BSG

    I said “at the very least”, so really, I think Stern falls into the second tier elite group with Haas, Tuck and Yale. These schools all offer something the others below them can’t.

  • C. Taylor

    Good question. It appears USNews assigns much more ranking-value to average GMAT/GRE scores which are derived from a number of data points equal to or exceeding 300.

  • eberly

    and tuck, haas and yale dont forget

  • rumba

    how would you know what a school’s yield is?
    and frankly, wharton’s yield has never been that great bc anyone who gets in there always chooses h or s if they have the chance

  • BSG

    I get that USN is trying to show Stern who daddy is, but putting Kenan-Flagler, McCombs, Tepper and Goizueta ahead of Stern is just asinine.

    Assuming no scholarships offered and no regional ties, nobody in their right mind would choose these schools over Stern.

    This drop in ranking won’t stop recruiters from showing up at one of the more selective business schools in the US, nor will it evaporate a strong alumni base.

    Stern’s peer group should be, at the very least, Anderson, Johnson, Ross, Darden and Fuqua.

  • BSG

    So basically, you’re saying that Yale needs to play the ranking game to its entirety to truly succeed in the ranking game.

  • Don’t think so

    I disagree that Yale will continue to rise. There is simply not any room for it to climb any more. Yale SOM is primarily banking on Yale’s strong brand and that’s it. Having Yale ranked above Columbia is kind of a joke. Maybe if they really play their cards right they might surpass Tuck but there is no way they are going any higher. As it is mentioned below, its individual area rankings are still not nearly impressive enough except for non-profit to warrant a legitimate spot in the top 10 let alone higher than #8.

    Also the order among them is far from irrelevant. A ranking with Yale #1 and Harvard #8 for example would simply be laughable.

  • Indeed

    #2 is too high for Booth. It should prob be #3 tied with Wharton.

  • Interesting

    *chasing

  • Interesting

    Exactly. Yale university might be a stronger overall brand than Columbia university and YSOM has been really aggressive in chancing the rankings but it is simply not a top 10 school ( maybe #10 but not a stop higher than that). It just goes to show you how important and bankable a really prestigious and strong overall brand is. All they needed was a super ambitious dean to properly take advantage of it. The lack of a very strong overall brand is also one of the big reasons Wharton has never been able to establish itself as a peer of HBS/Stanford but rather is a notch down and now it’s becoming more and more established as a peer of Booth. ( i.e Penn as an entire institution doesn’t have as prestigious a brand as Harvard, Stanford -and Yale for that matter).

  • Obama’s last wish

    How does Booth, with lower key stats across the board (employment % is almost identical and , frankly, irrelevant) tie Stanford and jump Wharton?

    Booth’s yield is in the low to mid 50’s% for crap’s sake…

  • Eor

    Yale above Columbia? Yikes! Sorry, not buyin’ it.

  • Andrew

    SOM definitely played their cards very well this year to make such a big leap in rankings–honestly astonishing leap. However, what does not impress me is their ranking by “program specialties” they continue to place #1 in Nonprofit (no shocker there), then the next highest ranking is #19 in Management, #20 in International, and #21 in Finance. For a top 10 program I would have expected bigger leaps in their “management” ranking, or maybe making the “entrepreneurship” ranking, since they have been focusing on this sub-field. I would just like to see the program focus on creating a more holistic learning experience, that mirrors their gargantuan leaps in rankings.

  • Andrew

    Yup, unfortunately I think to be completely fair we can’t really scrutinize Stern’s placement for this year, as it clearly does not merit a 9 place drop (no one in their right mind could make the justification). It’s unfortunate that this happened to them. I guess at least the other schools lagging behind Stern (up to number 20) should rejoice that they got propelled up an extra spot for the year.

  • C. Taylor

    No. And thank for the PR mention:

    USNews wrote: “New York University’s Stern School of Business did not submit its data for the number of new entrants to both its full-time and part-time MBA programs who provided GMAT scores. These data were for the fall 2015 entering class.
    . . . U.S. News will not recalculate NYU’s rankings – or any other school’s rankings – because of nonreporting.    ”

    usnews (dot) com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/2016/03/15/why-new-york-university-fell-in-the-best-business-schools-rankings

  • The Truth

    I disagree with you completely. Especially on your ranking of #’s 11 -15. Take a look at Stern’s job placements and the plethora of companies that recruit there. Isn’t going to business school mainly about who will hire you?

  • david

    Shows how incorrect your analysis is…us news also just released a PR to address why NYU Stern’s ranking is so low, the MBA score you are seeing is the data Stern later supplied

  • marge

    Lol, just goes to show how making the easiest and most vanilla application essay to boost app volumes, and banking on the GMAT inflation card completely came back to slap them in the face. There is a fine line between wanting qualified candidates that can excel in a challenging curriculum and just playing a numbers game. A good adcom should be more concerned with its school culture and getting to know their candidates in a less superficial way. Well, maybe if they raise their GMAT another 4 points next year they will be back in the top 3???

  • C. Taylor

    “It was Booth’s slightly better employment numbers that allowed the school to edge out Wharton which tied or bested Chicago on every other metric.”

    There is another way to look at it. Using the data published here: Booth tied Wharton in the recruiter survey (an increase), matched Wharton’s increase in the peer survey, and held its lead in jobs. Booth gets kudos here for continued strong job performance. This ranking simply confirms here what everyone knew, Booth and Wharton are peers. And Booth enables graduates to succeed in the job market.

    But the big thing about this ranking is that it underscores the shortcomings of many rankings. Yale has a fine program and put work into gaining spots in the ranking. But it would be a mistake to accept all relative positioning in the ranking at face value; Yale at 8 while Stern is at 20 between Emory and Washington U? . . . I’ll stick with a combination of fit and five to seven year career impact.

  • Attention to Detail

    The issue wasn’t the score itself but answering the ? on the number of students who submitted GMATs — not sure how that impacts the ranking

  • Daps for USN

    I think this is a pretty fair T10 IMO — the order among them is pretty irrelevant, Yale will continue to climb as it chases the rankings (I’m not a SOMer btw). It seems the T10 are just so far ahead of the pack in terms of brand,

  • wineenthusiast

    Stern is a pretty weak school. That school with living costs total up to $200K in debt.

    The real ranking of the schools be something like
    1) Harvard
    2) Stanford
    3) Booth / Wharton
    5) Kellogg / MIT
    7) Columbia
    8) Tuck
    9) Haas
    10) Yale
    11) Darden
    12) Fuqua / Johnson / Ross
    15) UCLA

  • That’s interesting, though U.S. News did publish a GMAT score for NYU and it is only one point below last year’s score: 720 vs. 721 a year ago. This analysis is from my story:

    So what in the world would cause a top-flight school like Stern to plunge nine places? Relatively minor changes in the acceptance rate for the MBA program as well as the employment rate for the latest graduating class. The acceptance rate inched up to 20.0%, from 18.1% a year earlier. Some 89.0% of last year’s MBAs had jobs three months after graduation, down from 90.4% the previous year. Yet, the rate at graduation last year–78.8%–was significantly better than in 2014 when it was 74.9%. Such minor and inconsequential changes are behind that large a drop.

  • 2cents

    Stubborn is as stubborn does… but I still dislike how much USNews relies on inconsistent recruiting and peer reporting. Shocking to see the NY schools fall this much, I’d blame the schools if it was just one but honestly the rankings just indicate lingering tech love by MBA students (MIT and Haas would seem to be high relative to historical, the NY schools and Wharton lag). Also Yale jumping this much just makes me doubt Booth more for gaming rankings.

  • C. Taylor

    Thanks for the info. Stern has a great program.

    I was very curious about the ranking drop, but didn’t find it accurately reflected the benefits Stern offers relative to its peers.

    Nice handle, btw.

  • mbafanatic

    let the Wharton hating begin

  • Anonymouse

    So what in the world would cause a top-flight school like Stern to plunge nine places?

    Dean Henry just sent out an email to students – the issue was there was a missing data point Concerning how many students submitted GMAT scores. us news used an estimate although stern doesn’t know what the estimate was. Stern then provided correct data but news us news refused to adjust the rankings. It seems from the wording of email that us news never flagged the missing data point to stern nor did they use an estimate that was anywhere near accurate since supposedly the number didn’t change from the year before.

  • Bull Shark

    let the hating begin